I grew up atheist for 16 years. I had always kept an open mind towards religion, but never really felt a need to believe in it. My sister started going to a Wednesday night children's program at a church. Eventually, I was dragged into a Christmas Eve service. Scoffing, I reluctantly went, assuming that this was going to be a load of crap, but when I went, I felt something. Something that I've never felt before. I felt a sense of empowerment and a sense of calling. Jesus called upon my soul, just like he did with his disciples. he wanted me to follow him. Now, my life is being lived for Christ. He died on the cross for my sins, and the sins of everyone who believes in him. He was beaten, brutalized, struck with a whip 39 times, made to carry a cross up to the stage of his death. This I believe to be true, and I can never repay him for what he has done. I still have my struggles with Christianity, but I've found this bit of information most useful. Religion is not comprehensible in the human mind, because we cannot comprehend the idea of a perfect and supreme being, a God, but we can believe it in our heart, and that's the idea of faith. Faith is, even though everything rides against me believing in Jesus, I still believe in him because I know that it's true in my heart. I invite my fellow Brothers and sisters of the LORD to talk about how Jesus has helped you in your life. No atheists and no insults please
Wrong expansion. You say "some" heterosexual couples can't reproduce, I say "all" homosexual couples can't reproduce. Exclusions happen at all times, but two men can't conceive because there's no woman to conceive, and two women can't conceive because there is no man between them to provide the semen to conceive. Therefore homosexual couples won't count as "married".
It is already possible for two males or two females to have a child that is biologically theirs. And of course theres the fake that marriage is for more than reproducing.
Wrong expansion. You say "some" heterosexual couples can't reproduce, I say "all" homosexual couples can't reproduce. Exclusions happen at all times, but two men can't conceive because there's no woman to conceive, and two women can't conceive because there is no man between them to provide the semen to conceive. Therefore homosexual couples won't count as "married".
Homosexual couples are involved in a victimless "sin."
How can it be considered a sin if it doesn't harm anyone directly. In fact, it creates happiness because they both consent to it.
I don't understand why there even has to be a discussion about homosexuals not being able to reproduce. We have enough people in the world as it is and you can't murder people who are yet to be conceived. Like someone else said, its just sad to think of a relationship and marriage as just a platform for child-bearing. If it was so important to have children that not having children is a sin, it's a wonder why christian women aren't immobilised by guilt of not being pregnant all the time. Afterall, any time you are not pregnant is a waste of opportunity to have a child and increase the human population by a potential infinity in the future!
This thread of religions is making my head spin, it feels all of you people are going in circles, asking the same questions and answering the same answers.
Quite probably in fact. I expect that main trouble in this dialogue is that God does not need to comply with binary logic. Therefore, any attempt to prove His existance, as I have really tried to do, is doomed to fail, but the very same statement makes any attempt of logically denying God's existance to fail.
actually, thanks to science, a child can be sired whose only biological parents are two males and two females, with stem cells, can have a child that is biologically theres
Careful with spelling pal, but: No, you have to get an ovocyte from somewhere in order to make the zygote, and no male can produce one.
to say marriage is all about reproduction means that anyone over the age of 60 can't marry or if you are infertile.
Actually, when we (me and my wife) were interviewed by a priest prior to marriage, we were asked about our known infertility. So if one is infertile, and hid this info from the other, the marriage can be justified as never happened. But if the two knew about the couple's infertility, they can still be married in order to be able to adopt children and be a true family with God.
When christanity first started, people were wondering if they had to be jewish before being a christian. And, like many people, the idea of chopping part of your **** off and being a diet for the rest of your life was not appealing. So Paul bull****ted and said "Of course you don't have to be a kosher jew to be a christian."
Source or this has never happened. You're stating Paul as guilty in misinformating the whole of the Christian people, you're the one to prove this.
What about honor? Pride? Morality?
Honor - why yes, being honorable is also being just with your words - if you say, you do. Mt 21:28 gives the priorities of good deeds to words, also it shows what is fulfillment of one's words. Pride - this depends on what you are proud of. If you're proud of what you have done, remember who gave you all of the things and abilities to do this, and thank Him for this. In fact self-pride is a flaw that leads to sons the most, as it does not allow you to look critically at yourself, and seeing if you're already doing something wrong. Morality - you seem to have found the answer yourself, there is morality in the Bible, NT.
Malevolent, Webster, Adjective Having or showing a wish to do evil to others
What is "evil"? God said "For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways" (Isaiah 55:7-55:9) This means you can't classify God as "evil" since this "evil" is also a statement that's "our ways", it's a humanly statement. This is also the reason of why "malevolent" couldn't be applied to God. Why we say that God is "benevolent" then? Because He said so, and did as He said, and still does as He said once.
Like someone else said, its just sad to think of a relationship and marriage as just a platform for child-bearing
This brings up a good point.
Because it isn't "just a platform for child-bearing," the argument that homosexuals should not be allowed to marry because marriage should only be a platform for child-bearing is invalidated.
Furthermore, read about Fermi's paradox - life probably doesn't exist elsewhere in the galaxy.
can't say I entirely agree with the paradox, but I guess that's a topic for another debate.
(absolute morality can exist without a God) or anything.
I don't think it exists at all given the nature of morality is based on personal views.
Wrong expansion. You say "some" heterosexual couples can't reproduce, I say "all" homosexual couples can't reproduce. Exclusions happen at all times, but two men can't conceive because there's no woman to conceive, and two women can't conceive because there is no man between them to provide the semen to conceive. Therefore homosexual couples won't count as "married".
What does it matter? By this standard heterosexual couples who can't reproduce should not be allowed to marry or be considered married just the same as any homosexual couple. But that's not how it's viewed, thus this is nothing but a double standard. If you can make acceptations for heterosexual couples who can't reproduce then there is no reason you can't make acceptations for homosexual couples.
Homosexual couples are involved in a victimless "sin."
No quotation marks here. You don't need a visible victim to actually sin, you can sin with yourself and even be consent with it, like taking drugs in order to "release yourself from the problems of the world". Druggies do receive some sort of consent while they're on high. And I'm not yet talking about masturbation, which is basically a sexual act without any partner, since the one that does this is alone. This is called sodomy, and is harming your soul harder than you can see.
Do as we say or be punished by god. Do as we say or burn for eternity. Anything else is evil. Do not listen to others.
Last two statements are wrong in case of Christianity, these apply for totalitary sects that really want people to stop rationally thinking. Jehovah's Witnesses are an extreme example of this. Christianity states "don't do this or you'll get hurt" and not "do this or else..." Hell, however, exists, and we repeatedly hear "many people go to Hell because they didn't repent their sins". If there's something that contradicts God's commandment, it's a bruise on your soul, you just don't feel such bruises as you do with the body. But if you would leave a bruise open, as we don't know how to heal souls, it can get infected and your soul could burn, and if you die in this condition, this is Hell. You can't get to the healer once you're dead, your soul remains in the state of being infected and aches for all eternity, as souls are immortal. God is the healer, and He is behind a priest when you come to confession. He can heal your soul if you repent for your sins, but the confeccion is a more determined way to receive healing.
Asking "What came before the Big Bang?" is a misunderstanding of the Big Bang. There is no "came before" because the Big Bang created time.
You know what, we can't prove this statement of Big Bang creating time. It's possible that starting the time has created the Big Bang. Also these events can happen simultaneously - as far as you can apply this word to terminal conditions like this, I mean these events can have the same source. But this is beyond the scope of determinism. And this is the moot point.
So for you, the only reason-to-be of a marriage is to reproduce? Isn't that sad?
The main reason, yes. The other reason is well-being of the two married, having a roughly equal value in family building, but a couple needs both to have a proper marriage. Reproduction can exist in a form of adoption, indeed, but as single-parent families have difficulties in rising children because of no ideal of either a father or a mother, the homosexual couples will also meet the same difficulties.
Because it isn't "just a platform for child-bearing,"
"Is sad" does not mean "false". Invalidation error.
By this standard heterosexual couples who can't reproduce should not be allowed to marry or be considered married just the same as any homosexual couple.
Read above in this post about adoption. I would like to give you example verses from the Bible, but you apriori invalidated any argument coming from there.
I expect that main trouble in this dialogue is that God does not need to comply with binary logic.
The purpose of man's life...is to become an abject zombie who serves a purpose he does not know, for reasons he is not to question. -Ayn Rand
Answer this - whether God exists or not, there could possibly exist a p that is either true or false. Whether God exists or not, we can define --> and ~ and all other logical symbols.
Therefore, whether God exists or not, we cannot deny binary logic.
He can heal your soul if you repent for your sins, but the confeccion is a more determined way to receive healing.
What makes an action bad?
Is it God's whim?
It seems as though Christianity makes an unbacked assertion here - that God creates morality because He does. How are we supposed to know that X action is bad at all if there is no objective standard to judge it by other than God's whim? What about actions that are not covered in the Bible? What does the Bible say about the Trolley scenario? What is moral there?
I'd like to know this as well, since it's only been said that it's bad, but there's absolutely no reasoning behind it. I've seen..."It's a bruise on your soul" and "it kills future children" and "homosexual people cannot raise children" and "they can't have children in a biological way" but no reason as to WHY it's bad. Dodgedy dodge dodge!
Answer this - whether God exists or not, there could possibly exist a p that is either true or false. Whether God exists or not, we can define --> and ~ and all other logical symbols.
Therefore, whether God exists or not, we cannot deny binary logic.
Yes, WE cannot deny binary logic, it's God who can.
Wouldn't it have to be innately immoral for God to recognize its immorality?
You declare God as immoral implicitly. I'd say God defines moral, so He is not immoral by definition. This is also a partial answer to your next post.
What does the Bible say about the Trolley scenario?
What is Trolley scenario? The thing that's known as "trolling"?
I still see no answer as to why homsexuality is bad, just that it is. I will keep this up until I do get an answer! Be warned all ye who enter, for the same question shalt be repeated un to eternity for the dodging in this thread is over 9000!
The trolley scenario is: A trolley is running out of control down a track. In its path are five people who have been tied to the track by a mad scientist. Fortunately, you could flip a switch, which will lead the trolley down a different track to safety. Unfortunately, there is a single person tied to that track. Should you flip the switch or do nothing?
