ForumsWEPREconomic and Political Fallacies

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ClammyPants
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ClammyPants
9 posts
Nomad

I'd like to start this post with a quote. "Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passions, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence." - John Adams

Fallacies are simply the widely held beliefs of the people and tend to fail when put to the test, including some that collapse like a house of cards and others where the truth turns out to be the direct opposite of what has been so often asserted. Many economic policies involve the fallacy of composition, as politicians come to the aid of some particular group, industry, state or other special interest, representing the benefits to them as if they were net benefits to society, rather than essentially robbing "Peter to pay Paul". Many local governments, for example, follow policies designed to attract either new businesses or higher-income people, both of which are expected to provide more local tax revenues. Whole neighborhoods have been demolished and "redeveloped" with upscale housing and shopping malls as a means of "revitalizing" the community. Since policies imposed by government are not voluntary transactions, like those of the marketplace, zero-sum and negative-sum operations can continue indefinitely. Here is another example: One of the ****ing claims against the insecticide DDT, during the successful campaign to get it banned in many parts of the world, was that it caused cancer. In places where DDT had been widely used, cancer rates had in fact gone up. Many of these were countries subject to devastating ravages of malaria, which killed off vast numbers of people. In the wake of using DDT, which killed mosquitoes that transmitted malaria, that disease was drastically reduced, almost to the vanishing point in some places. Now millions of people, who would have otherwise died young, lived long enough to get cancer in their later years, but the DDT did not cause the cancer, and its banning led to a resurgence of malaria that took millions of lives around the world.

Now this is just a basic summary of what I personally think about the fallacies of the United States and/or the world. What do you guys think about it?

  • 35 Replies
ClammyPants
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ClammyPants
9 posts
Nomad

I really enjoyed reading your arguments. In my intro post I specifically said that when fallacies are put to the test, they do often crumple.

Kevin4762
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Kevin4762
2,420 posts
Nomad

They do, but if you have an inductive reasoning fallacy, how does it crumble?

Can you give an example?

NoNameC68
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NoNameC68
5,043 posts
Shepherd

That's Libertarianism.

Capitalism basically means that the government does not control production. Basically, not much regulation.


Libertarian is not at the same level as capitalism or socialism. Capitalism and socialism are broad terms and libertarian, as well as liberal, conservative, green, and so on, are more specific terms that fall under capitalism, communism, and socialism.
loloynage2
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loloynage2
4,206 posts
Peasant

Just saying, but free market has Marxism. Trading stuff without getting any real benefit. The value of something must be the price, therefor every object is equal to it's price.

NoNameC68
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NoNameC68
5,043 posts
Shepherd

Just saying, but free market has Marxism. Trading stuff without getting any real benefit. The value of something must be the price, therefor every object is equal to it's price.


Not sure if I'm following you, but you can trade so that both people gain.

If I have 10 dollars and a pizza and I need 20 dollar shoes, I can trade someone who has 10 dollars and is hungry my pizza for their 10 dollars. We both gained, I now have money for shoes, he now has a pizza. Sure, he lost 10 dollars, but to him, the pizza was more valuable.
loloynage2
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loloynage2
4,206 posts
Peasant

But you lost the pizza, so now you only have 20$ and the other guy has the pizza, maybe both of you are happy, but no one gained anything. Well only if the pizza is worth less then 10$, but in a free market system, it's not the competition that is missing, the guy could of always bought from someone else, if he noticed that your pizza is not worth the 10$.

Kevin4762
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Kevin4762
2,420 posts
Nomad

I am just saying, that Capitalism does not mean "no regulation."

Libertarian beliefs say "no regulation."

Also, in a free market, many things are gained.

Einfach
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Einfach
1,448 posts
Nomad

The value of something must be the price, therefor every object is equal to it's price.

Prices are not constants. They are variables. The price of an item depends on how much the parties desire it relative to other things.

For example, food is worth more to you when you're starving.
NoNameC68
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NoNameC68
5,043 posts
Shepherd

But you lost the pizza, so now you only have 20$ and the other guy has the pizza, maybe both of you are happy, but no one gained anything. Well only if the pizza is worth less then 10$, but in a free market system, it's not the competition that is missing, the guy could of always bought from someone else, if he noticed that your pizza is not worth the 10$.


The guy who lost the pizza gained 10 dollars so that he could buy shoes.

Before we go on, tell me, what is money?
wolf1991
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wolf1991
3,437 posts
Farmer

Before we go on, tell me, what is money?


An idea.

Money is nothing but an idea of value. The only reason it is effective is because the majority has been schooled and brainwashed into thinking that our current system is the only true system. In reality the worth of money lies in the majority. If we woke up tomorrow and the vast majority of people refused to use the current system, then the system would lose it's meaning. If we then had that majority use rocks for currency then rocks would be our monetary system.
NoNameC68
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NoNameC68
5,043 posts
Shepherd

Money is nothing but an idea of value. The only reason it is effective is because the majority has been schooled and brainwashed into thinking that our current system is the only true system. In reality the worth of money lies in the majority. If we woke up tomorrow and the vast majority of people refused to use the current system, then the system would lose it's meaning. If we then had that majority use rocks for currency then rocks would be our monetary system.


Is money a bad thing then? Why do we have money, what is it's purpose?
wolf1991
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wolf1991
3,437 posts
Farmer

Is money a bad thing then? Why do we have money, what is it's purpose?


Is it bad? Hard to say. Before we bartered with goods, a goat for 6 chickens. That was useful, now...I don't know it seems to have corrupted our morals in certain ways, but like I said, I can't really take a side if it's bad or not. It does have its purpose.
NoNameC68
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NoNameC68
5,043 posts
Shepherd

Is it bad? Hard to say. Before we bartered with goods, a goat for 6 chickens. That was useful, now...I don't know it seems to have corrupted our morals in certain ways, but like I said, I can't really take a side if it's bad or not. It does have its purpose.


Before money, people did have to barter for goods. However, bartering often became very complex. Money is used so that you don't have to barter if you don't want to.

Here's a video that explains why we should go back to the gold standard. I'm just throwing the video out there; I'm not really advocating that we go back to the gold standard. This is actually one thing I do not currently have much of an opinion on.
loloynage2
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loloynage2
4,206 posts
Peasant

Before we go on, tell me, what is money?

A way to put value to other objects. A currency. A system that allows to have a common trading tool.
Strop
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Strop
10,816 posts
Bard

I'm going to butt in here just to put in my two-cents worth (no pun intended... okay PUN INTENDED har har).

Not a fallacy because it's not an argument, but the premise that I object to: the fundament of economics being that growth is good.

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