I've decided to devote a thread to the belief system in which I believe God works on.
Let's begin on what God is all about: 1rst we will look at choice. As many of you will argue that religion is something that once you get into it, you will simply blindly follow and you are given a ball and chain and there is absolutely no choice whatsoever. That's simply not the case. I'm sure you know as well as I do that there are extremist out there, but nonetheless God created us with freewill. Otherwise there wouldn't be any atheist to go haywire on this thread after they have read it. We as humans have a choice in which we set our faith (or lack thereof) our morals, our beliefs, and so on and so forth. God didn't want robots without any choice. He wanted something you could make that he could love him and something intelligent enough to love him back.
2nd we will look at faith. Religion is based completely on faith. Hebrews 11 is all about faith (NIV translation)
Verse 1 Now faith is confidence in what we hope for and assurance about what we do not see. 2 This is what the ancients were commended for. Verse 3 By faith we understand that the universe was formed at Godâs command, so that what is seen was not made out of what was visible.
Verse 6 And without faith it is impossible to please God, because anyone who comes to him must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who earnestly seek him.
In part of God not wanting robots he decided to make life more interesting. He wants us to love him through faith and nothing more. This way he can understand how real your love for him truly is.
Now let's delve into Compromised Choice shall we. Atheism is the lack of faith of a divine being. Athiest prefer backed evidence compared to stories or biased sources. They need to see to believe contrary to Hebrews 11:1. But why would that be contrary to God?
Why would an omnipotent being need to be seen only through faith?
Because remember the first thing about God - he is all about choice. Therefor revealing himself outright would compromise this. Let me put it in a case of a scenario. If right now, wherever you are, God appeared right in front of you. He called you by name, then snapped his fingers and all of a sudden an elephant was created next to you, or he healed someone right there in front of you. Better yet let's say he did it at an international science convention where it was broadcast all over the world. Now God is there preforming miracles for the entire scientific community to see. Every single scientist in the world could run any number of tests that there is and get positive results that standing right there is indeed an omnipotent being.
So given that scenario, you have all the evidence you need. You have seen with your own eyes along with the rest of the world that God exist. You have all the scientific evidence in the world to back it as well. What reason would you have to NOT believe God existed? There would be miniscule reasoning to not believe in God.
Now this brings us to the second part of the Compromised Choice system. Faith. If you could see God right there in front of you, there would be no reason to have faith. You could love him or not but either way that love would be superficial. If you knew you could go to heaven or hell just by loving him there would be little choice in choosing a path because the only logical thing would be to believe in him.
God does not want to work on human terms because he has no need to. He gave the guidelines for what he would like for us to do and he has kept those guidelines for thousands of years and we continue to have a choice in what we do. But there is logical reasoning behind him never showing himself in the first place because he refuses to compromise his original intentions.
There is a problem, how do you know the bible you are using is the correct one? How do you know it is not the koran? The Torah? any one of a thousand different holy books which is god's true word?
Ah I was sure you would chime in at some point E1337 with some of your "what if" statements. This was written with the basis of Christianity in mind. What if those others are right... cool kid. Let's stay on topic please.
God cannot change, if he does it means he was incorrect and therefore is not god. If his actions and morals are effected by mans than he is not god. If your argument is correct he is not god.
If God gave man free will, then God didn't make humans morals. If morals change (which they do) then the way God will deal with a situation will too.
Yet you still don't understand the significance of it. Also please realize to the original definition I was contending to and not to your definition.
You gave me the impression you had conceded to use my definition. Furthermore even under your definition the deck remains stacked. How has he lowered his expectation? How can he even have expectations if he is all knowing? Do you not see the flaw in that?
This was written with the basis of Christianity in mind. What if those others are right... cool kid. Let's stay on topic
His points remain on topic. He questions your original arguement with something fairly reasonble. Regardless of the intended target you must give a portion of your reasoning to human error. Claiming it is "divine word" is no good either because every faith uses the same claim.
If God gave man free will, then God didn't make humans morals.
This would also mean things like the commandments couldn't have come from God either. In fact nothing in the Bible could be from God if you think our free will can so easily be destroyed.
Though I have to wonder where does God claim to care so much about free will? I sure don't see it in the Bible.
Also, because I enjoy looking at the profiles of those I debate with, I told you I was ignoring your others points because I found them to be meaningless in the argument. If you would like to show to me how they are meaningful I would listen.
The God of the scriptures is presented as eternal in his nature, unchanging.
Where did you get that? My translation says "and you, the sons of Jacob, have not reached the end."
Malachi 3:6
I may be wrong but doesn't biblical only refer to the first 5 books?
This would also mean things like the commandments couldn't have come from God either. In fact nothing in the Bible could be from God if you think our free will can so easily be destroyed.
I don't see how you get that from my statement.
Though I have to wonder where does God claim to care so much about free will? I sure don't see it in the Bible.
To tell you the truth, i don't remember. I would have to guess somewhere in genesis.
You aren't getting this. If god doesn't change neither would his reactions to situations. Moreover if god followed the morals of man his morals would be influenced by man and his morals would be ours.
Where did you get that? My translation says "and you, the sons of Jacob, have not reached the end."
Stupid sketchy sites. The first point stands.
I may be wrong but doesn't biblical only refer to the first 5 books?
biblical refers to the whole bible.
To tell you the truth, i don't remember. I would have to guess somewhere in genesis.
Ironically it's no where. Predestination is a reoccurring theme, however, making your freewill argument fundamentally incorrect.
You aren't getting this. If god doesn't change neither would his reactions to situations. Moreover if god followed the morals of man his morals would be influenced by man and his morals would be ours.
Who said God had morals? Morals could be a completely human thing.
biblical refers to the whole bible.
Sorry, being Jewish i never refer to anything in the bible as biblical.
So you don't the commandments to be moral rules or at least guild lines? If so isn't this an example of God laying down morals? But if God doesn't do this then these commandments couldn't have come from God.
Ironically it's no where. Predestination is a reoccurring theme, however, making your freewill argument fundamentally incorrect.
It is somewhere. He gives us the free choice between following his laws and not following his laws.
So you don't the commandments to be moral rules or at least guild lines? If so isn't this an example of God laying down morals? But if God doesn't do this then these commandments couldn't have come from God.
I still don't understand what your saying but i feel like we are basically arguing wether or not the bible is moral. Which no one said it was.
