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Forums → WEPR → Is God a Postulate? (Questions From a Thoughtful Jew)

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zakyman
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zakyman
1,627 posts
Peasant

For all of you geometry nerds like me, and for those of you who do not know what a postulate is, it is a rule of mathematics which cannot be proven, yet cannot/has not been disproven. I feel that God feels under this rule. No one can prove His/Her/It's existence, yet no one can really disprove it. I would like to see other peoples' thoughts on this.

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MageGrayWolf
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MageGrayWolf
9,462 posts
Farmer

The Big Bang, or is that not a theory?


the Big Bang is based on observation.
http://www.damtp.cam.ac.uk/research/gr/public/bb_pillars.html
Anyhtinbutthat
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Anyhtinbutthat
13 posts
Nomad

God doesn't demand anything. It never will. It's you who demand him.
What happens if I met God and he asked me to blow his **** for him?

MageGrayWolf
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MageGrayWolf
9,462 posts
Farmer

God doesn't demand anything. It never will. It's you who demand him.


So I guess it was actually the ten suggestions instead of the ten commandments than?
AnaLoGMunKy
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AnaLoGMunKy
1,573 posts
Blacksmith

god in general is a very broad spectrum that we really can't say anything bout on way or another. Specific gods on the other hand we can disprove, at least to a degree.


I think you hit a nail on the head here dude. This all boils down to specifics or the lack of.

If we are talking about the possibility of there being a god, any god, in existence then I would say yes, sounds like a &quotostulate", something that can neither be proven nor dis-proven.

But if we are specific and its the god "Yahweh" that we are talking about, there are plenty of books that we can use as evidence to suggest that this particular god doesnt exist. i.e. considering all the crap and contradictions of the various holy books, we can safely say its a worldwide delusion on a grand scale because using logic we can see that:

1. There is no irrefutable proof that any person/entity in history had the magical powers stated in various holy books or anywhere else either

2. There is no irrefutable proof that anyone has been visited by an apparition of any kind or seen a ghost, spirit or otherwise

Just these two, for me personally, make me logically think that none of the gods we write about likely exist.
grimml
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grimml
879 posts
Nomad

A postulate in Mathematics is (according to dictionary.com):

Mathematics, Logic . a proposition that requires no proof, being self-evident, or that is for a specific purpose assumed true, and that is used in the proof of other propositions; axiom.


Is God's existence self-evident? I'd say no. Can we use God's existence in the proof of other propositions? Again I'd say no. Therefore I think that you can't see God as a postulate.
EmperorPalpatine
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EmperorPalpatine
9,439 posts
Jester

Merriam Webster Dictionary:
pos·tu·late/ËpäsCHÉlÉt/
Noun: A thing suggested or assumed as true as the basis for reasoning, discussion, or belief.

By deffinition, yes. God has caused a lot of discussion has He not? God was used as an attempt to explain the universe and many things, therefore reasoning. And of course, belief.

God isn't found in mathematics or logic so I have no idea why you chose that definition.

Here's a more fitting one (also according to dictionary.com)
something taken as self-evident or assumed without proof as a basis for reasoning.

grimml
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grimml
879 posts
Nomad

God isn't found in mathematics or logic so I have no idea why you chose that definition.

Because:
1. zakyman was talking about a postulate in mathematics
2. If you see God as a postulate it mustn't contradict physics (and science in general).

But evene with your definition (something taken as self-evident or assumed without proof as a basis for reasoning) it won't work because God is not self-evident. And also we first have to define what "God" is.
dudeguy45
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dudeguy45
2,917 posts
Peasant

"Us proving there is a god is as impossible as Sherlock Holmes trying to prove the existance of Arthur Conan Doyle."

EmperorPalpatine
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EmperorPalpatine
9,439 posts
Jester

@grimml
God is taken as self-evident without proof; Religious people consider God to exist as a basis for religion. Their reasoning of self-evidence is our own existance and the existance of everything else.

@dudeguy45
True. That's a good analogy.

EmperorPalpatine
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EmperorPalpatine
9,439 posts
Jester

Dictionary.com
God: the one Supreme Being, the creator and ruler of the universe.

314d1
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314d1
3,817 posts
Nomad

@grimml

God is taken as self-evident without proof; Religious people consider God to exist as a basis for religion. Their reasoning of self-evidence is our own existance and the existance of everything else.


This isn't math, this is science. In science, you have the burden of proof. Would you believe me if I said the teapot I mentioned earlier was the creator of the universe? I would hope not.

What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. - Christopher Hitchens

"Us proving there is a god is as impossible as Sherlock Holmes trying to prove the existance of Arthur Conan Doyle."


Do to the fact that Sherlock Holmes and Yahweh both only exist inside their respective books, I would say the situation is rather more like Arthur Conan Doyle trying to prove Sherlock Holmes.

Dictionary.com
God: the one Supreme Being, the creator and ruler of the universe.


So we are talking about the Big Bang now? No? Vishnu? No? Xeno? Yahweh? Any other religion? Define your god.
EmperorPalpatine
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EmperorPalpatine
9,439 posts
Jester

@314d1
The above definition is the generic religious definition of God.
The goal of this thread is not to prove or disprove God, only to determine if God is a postulate.
Compare God to atoms. Has anyone actually seen an individual atom before? No. Atoms are a postulate for now. People claim they exist based on their properties: what they do. Has anyone seen God? No. Religious people base their beliefs on what God did: his properties.

NoNameC68
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NoNameC68
5,043 posts
Shepherd

Science is the study of what can be observed. If you can't observe it, then you can't form a theory. Science is real,as explained here.

314d1
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314d1
3,817 posts
Nomad

The above definition is the generic religious definition of God.


No, that is a definition of god. Some things that don't fit that, such as a god that didn't create the universe or isn't supreme like Zeus is still a god without fitting this description.

Compare God to atoms. Has anyone actually seen an individual atom before? No. Atoms are a postulate for now. People claim they exist based on their properties: what they do. Has anyone seen God? No. Religious people base their beliefs on what God did: his properties.


Prostates are mathematical, this is science. Atoms are a theory, we have observed everything that we need to say "These things exist". They have evidence behind them. What religious people have is a half whited drunken pathetic excuse for a hypothesis. Atoms are not properties, they are a theory. We have observed them. Has anyone observed god? No. Has anyone observed atoms? Yes. Atoms can do this.

http://www.chocolatediapers.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/mushroom-cloud-hb.jpg

Something that proves they exist. No god has done anything to be observed like it has.

No go back to the quote above again.
Kasic
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Kasic
5,552 posts
Jester

Prostates are mathematical


Guess Prostate cancer can be cured through subtraction...who knew.
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