ForumsWEPRWar in the Middle East?

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ninjajr
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ninjajr
56 posts
Nomad

What is your view on the wars in the middle east? Are you for them or against them and why?

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partydevil
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partydevil
5,129 posts
Jester

If you want to blame someone, blame the Russians. Most of those wars were between the USA and communist parties supported by the Russians, which were a threat to the United States.


i blame america for killing people from a compleet different country then the country they are supposed to be in "war" whit.
it doesn't change to fact that america was fighting in a other country then itself 26 times whit a military force. and they didn't fight russia they fought people from those other countrys not russians.

As far as I know, the Libyans started the Libyan Civil War.

yes but i was talking about the moment other countrys started to be involved and that started whit the usa bombing libya. and at that time the eu and un didn't had a plan yet what to do next because europe didn't wanted to get involved whit it.

you think we should sit by and allow genocide and basic rights violations to millions of people because, **** it

thats right.. the rebels started it if they never started it then their would be no genocide or anything. it's how governments and countrys are created and how they are going be be gone again. things like that happen for 1000's of yours already.

And about the Libyan civil war

it's not a civil war

This comment is funny as it clearly states on my profile that I am from New Zealand

i'm not going to check evry1's profile page when i reply to them.
your post was so f*cked up that it had to be from a american but it seems they have brainwashed you aswell

The US did the right thing

i disagree as ive explained in a post befor

Yeah, we won't support your fight for democracy/freedom because we are afraid people will hate us

i'd never said the reason "because we are afraid people will hate us" read my posts back and read what my reason for it realy is.

Exactly. If somebody's country was under attack, the first people they think will help them is the US, yet they go and slander their name. WTF?
If you are against what the US is doing (which is helping people get freedom), then you are anti any country helping people get freedom around the world. Sounds incredibly selfish to me.
It's okay! We have freedom in the Netherlands no need to help other people in the world get it as well!


if america are such freedom fighters then where was america during the riots in china 1989? or when china attacked tibet? freedom for evry1 but when china attacks some1 then you look the other way? (a bit scared of china?)

anyway your reasons are the reasons from american propaganda and i do not blindly agree whit that. i'm looking at the big pics. (i can't wait to find some1 from libya whit wich i can have a conversation about this war and the other war in the 80's)
grimml
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grimml
879 posts
Nomad

i blame america for killing people from a compleet different country then the country they are supposed to be in "war" whit.
it doesn't change to fact that america was fighting in a other country then itself 26 times whit a military force. and they didn't fight russia they fought people from those other countrys not russians.

once again: The cold war was NOT about USA vs. USSR!

yes but i was talking about the moment other countrys started to be involved and that started whit the usa bombing libya. and at that time the eu and un didn't had a plan yet what to do next because europe didn't wanted to get involved whit it.

Because we Europeans are pussies. That's the problem. We don't care if people who want democracy/freedom get slaughtered.

if america are such freedom fighters then where was america during the riots in china 1989? or when china attacked tibet? freedom for evry1 but when china attacks some1 then you look the other way? (a bit scared of china?)

You are compmlaining that America starts wars but now you're asking them to start even more wars? LOLwut?
War costs money and many lives. If the enemy is too strong (like China) then you'll think twice before starting it...

anyway your reasons are the reasons from american propaganda and i do not blindly agree whit that.

Anyway your reasons are the reasons from the European left-winged Anti-USA-propaganda and I do not blindly agree whit that.
partydevil
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partydevil
5,129 posts
Jester

If you are against what the US is doing (which is helping people get freedom), then you are anti any country helping people get freedom around the world.


looking in 2 boxes only -.-' i'm against americans solution of war for evry problem. most other countrys are not directly marching to war. they 1st are going to try to talk whit them.

example:
at the start of this last war in libya. (when the usa was not yet bombing the place) 3 dutch soldiers were held in prison in libya because they were flying in their airspace, and landed on the beach to rescue some dutch dude. it failed and so they were held in prison. we then have been talking whit libya to free our soldiers and after a week or so they were set free. (thx greece and and spain for that) if those 3 soldiers were from america. then i'm prety sure the usa started bombing right the day after because they now had something that belongs to america or something stupid like that.

once again: The cold war was NOT about USA vs. USSR!

then why give the issues between the usa and russia as a reason for the killing in all those real wars?

Because we Europeans are pussies. That's the problem. We don't care if people who want democracy/freedom get slaughtered.

you call us pussies. i call us smart to not get on the bad side of half the world. and to not kill people but try to talk it out 1st.

You are compmlaining that America starts wars but now you're asking them to start even more wars? LOLwut?

i was taking a view from your point. and i'm wondering why they always start a war but not when china is involved.

Anyway your reasons are the reasons from the European left-winged Anti-USA-propaganda and I do not blindly agree whit that.

and so it's good that not evry1 agrees it keeps life more intresting. and you finaly got it right ^^ just left not far-left
EmperorPalpatine
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EmperorPalpatine
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Jester

if america are such freedom fighters then where was america during the riots in china 1989?

Because our foreign policy for communism was containment/prevention, not reforming nations that were already communist. The same policy was used when rebels in Hungary tried to reform their communist puppet-government and hoped for US intervention.

or when china attacked tibet?

From Wiki:
"In 1956-57, armed Tibetan bands ambushed convoys of the Chinese Peoples Liberation Army. The uprising received extensive assistance from the U.S. Central Intelligence Agency (CIA), including military training, support camps in Nepal, and numerous airlifts. Meanwhile in the United States, the American Society for a Free Asia, a CIA-financed front, energetically publicized the cause of Tibetan resistance, with the Dalai Lamaâs eldest brother, Thubtan Norbu, playing an active role in that organization. The Dalai Lama's second-eldest brother, Gyalo Thondup, established an intelligence operation with the CIA as early as 1951. He later upgraded it into a CIA-trained guerrilla unit whose recruits parachuted back into Tibet."

and they didn't fight russia they fought people from those other countrys not russians.

i was taking a view from your point. and i'm wondering why they always start a war but not when china is involved.


Tensions were too high to take on eachothers militaries directly, so they fought in other countries. Both sides had their fingers on the nuke buttons if either side declared war on the other directly.

From Wiki:
Vietnam War
Belligerents
Anti-Communist forces:
South Vietnam
United States
South Korea
Australia
Philippines
New Zealand
Thailand
Khmer Republic
Kingdom of Laos
Republic of China (the democratic side)
Supported by:
Spain

Communist forces:
North Vietnam
NLF
Khmer Rouge
Pathet Lao
People's Republic of China(the communist regime)
Soviet Union
North Korea
Supported by:
Czechoslovakia
Cuba

Korean War
Belligerents
For South Korea
Republic of Korea
United Nations
(UN Resolution 84)
Combat support
Australia
Belgium
Canada
Colombia
Ethiopia
France
Greece
Luxembourg
Netherlands
New Zealand
Philippines
South Africa
Thailand
Turkey
United Kingdom
United States
For North Korea
Democratic People's Republic of Korea
People's Republic of China
Soviet Union

Their troops were there too.

if those 3 soldiers were from america. then i'm prety sure the usa started bombing right the day after because they now had something that belongs to america or something stupid like that.


Hell no, we'd send in some spec-ops to break them out if negotiations didn't work.
partydevil
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partydevil
5,129 posts
Jester

i still don't see why it's right to start 26 wars for that cause.
fot the rest of your post. nice but what is the point you wanna make?

hojoko
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hojoko
508 posts
Peasant

The point is that America is not the only country to participate in these wars, just the most well known, and someone people like to point a finger at.

thats right.. the rebels started it if they never started it then their would be no genocide or anything. it's how governments and countrys are created and how they are going be be gone again. things like that happen for 1000's of yours already.


This would be my first facepalm ever. Congratulations.

Generally speaking, rebellions start as a result of oppression, so I think that statement is somewhat misguided. If there was never a rebellion, these people would still be being brutally mistreated by their government.

at the start of this last war in libya. (when the usa was not yet bombing the place) 3 dutch soldiers were held in prison in libya because they were flying in their airspace, and landed on the beach to rescue some dutch dude. it failed and so they were held in prison. we then have been talking whit libya to free our soldiers and after a week or so they were set free. (thx greece and and spain for that) if those 3 soldiers were from america. then i'm prety sure the usa started bombing right the day after because they now had something that belongs to america or something stupid like that.


The situations are completely different. Negotiating to retrieve prisoners is fine, and something anyone would do. However, when the USA joined the war, they were doing it because they had allied with the rebels and been asked to support them.

i still don't see why it's right to start 26 wars for that cause.


That is a very misguided statement. The USA didn't start all 26 wars, they just took a major part in them.
EmperorPalpatine
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EmperorPalpatine
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Jester

@partydevil
I found it quite odd that troops from the Netherlands were fighting in the Korean war. That's nowhere near their nation. Their country wasn't attacked. So what the heck were they doing there? I thought you said a while ago that your peaceful nation hasn't engaged in any conflict since WWII.

@hojoko
Thank you. You saved me from a lot of typing.

partydevil
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partydevil
5,129 posts
Jester

I thought you said a while ago that your peaceful nation hasn't engaged in any conflict since WWII.

ive never said such thing. (it shows me however that you only read my posts 50% and you imagine the other 50%)

The point is that America is not the only country to participate in these wars, just the most well known, and someone people like to point a finger at.


yes now i show you what the usa is doing you get other countrys involved but when it comes to taking the honor when something good has come out of the wars it's always AMERICA DID IT, AMERICA WON THE WAR, AMERICA SAVED THE PEOPLE. (aka americans f*cked attitude)

That is a very misguided statement. The USA didn't start all 26 wars, they just took a major part in them.

the usa declared 26 wars happy now?
EmperorPalpatine
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EmperorPalpatine
9,439 posts
Jester

the usa declared 26 wars happy now?

That's not right either. Usually war wasn't declared for that would require an act of congress.
partydevil
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partydevil
5,129 posts
Jester

then plz. explain these wars? wasn't america the 1st country that fought in those countrys in those years?

partydevil
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partydevil
5,129 posts
Jester

i should add:
or came up whit the idea/plan to go and fight there.

EmperorPalpatine
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EmperorPalpatine
9,439 posts
Jester

then plz. explain these wars? wasn't america the 1st country that fought in those countrys in those years?

All info from wiki (mostly here):
China 1945-46
"In October 50,000 US Marines were sent to North China to assist Chinese Nationalist authorities in disarming and repatriating the Japanese in China and in controlling ports, railroads, and airfields. This was in addition to approximately 60,000 US forces remaining in China at the end of World War II."
That wasn't a war. That was cleanup after a war.

Korea 1950-53 (link)
"The Korean War was a conventional war between South Korea, supported by the United Nations, and North Korea, supported by the People's Republic of China (PRC), with military material aid from the Soviet Union." "After debating the matter, the Security Council, on 27 June 1950, published Resolution 83 recommending member states provide military assistance to the Republic of Korea."
Americans were the bulk of the forces, but many countries in the UN sent troops, even yours.

1954 Guatemala (link)
"In 1954, Arévalo's freely elected Guatemalan successor, Jacobo Arbenz Guzmán, was overthrown in a coup orchestrated by the U.S. Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) in the 1954 Guatemalan coup d'état. He considered himself a socialist. After his land reform, the CIA intervened because it feared that a socialist government would become a Soviet beachhead in the Western Hemisphere."
Not a war. Reforming of their government.

1958 Indonesia (link)
"A coup in 1958 failed to affect the rule of President Sukarno"
Again, not a war, a government reform.

1959-61 Cuba
"Fidel Castro purged the first post-revolution Prime Minister José Miró Cardona and President Manuel Urrutia Lleó, assuming power. On 11 December 1959, Colonel J.C. King of the CIA recommended assassinating Fidel Castro. Specifically, the CIA began to send weapons to guerillas that were against Fidel Castro."
Again a government reform attempt, not a war. The fighting was already going on.

Congo 1964
"The United States sent four transport planes to provide airlift for Congolese troops during a rebellion and to transport Belgian paratroopers to rescue foreigners."
Transport for a rescue mission, not a bombing or something.

Peru 1965
"Throughout Latin America in the 1960s, communist movements inspired by the Cuban Revolution sought to win power through guerrilla warfare."
This time it was for keeping the government the way it was.

Laos 1964-73
"From October 1962 until 1975, the United States played an important role in military support of anti-Communist forces in Laos."
An extention of the Vietnam War.

Vietnam 1961-73
"US military advisers had been in South Vietnam for a decade, and their numbers had been increased as the military position of the Saigon government became weaker. After citing what he termed were attacks on US destroyers in the Tonkin Gulf, President Johnson asked in August 1964 for a resolution expressing US determination to support freedom and protect peace in Southeast Asia. Congress responded with the Tonkin Gulf Resolution, expressing support for "all necessary measures" the President might take to repel armed attacks against US forces and prevent further aggression. Following this resolution, and following a Communist attack on a US installation in central Vietnam, the United States escalated its participation in the war to a peak of 543,000 military personnel by April 1969."
This is the only one that is really classified as a war.

1969-70
"U.S. starts secret bombing campaign against targets along the Ho Chi Minh trail in the sovereign nations of Cambodia and Laos. The bombings last at least two years."
Only places along a well-known enemy route. An extention of the Vietnam War.

This is a lot of work so I'll do the rest later.
EmperorPalpatine
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EmperorPalpatine
9,439 posts
Jester

Clarifying:

This is the only one that is really classified as a war.

So was Korea, but the only one that was sanctioned by the US, not the UN.
sprooschicken
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sprooschicken
1,143 posts
Nomad

Yeah I agree with Palpatine, although despicable most of those are no where near wars.

hojoko
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hojoko
508 posts
Peasant

yes now i show you what the usa is doing you get other countrys involved but when it comes to taking the honor when something good has come out of the wars it's always AMERICA DID IT, AMERICA WON THE WAR, AMERICA SAVED THE PEOPLE. (aka americans f*cked attitude)


That's just some rather crude and generalized ranting. Since America usually plays a larger part in these wars than other countries (because we have a larger and stronger military force), if something good happens, it was America with the other countries. Likewise, if something bad happens, it was America with the other countries.
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