I just went over my household budget and something really bothered me. Once I factored in sales tax and various other government user fees and added that to my total income tax, the government taxed away 49% of my income last year.
Almost half of what I earned with my hard work, my sweat and literally my blood on a few occasions TAKEN from me by the government.
How can liberalism/socialism justify taking HALF of what I EARN through my own hard work? How is this moral? How is this fair?
FYI I am not "RICH". I am working class. So don't even start on the Tax the Rich Because They Don't Pay Their Fair Share rhetoric.
All you folks quoting European tax rates, remember, North America, especially the US was originally settled by Europeans trying to escape government oppression.
So maybe in Europe they like high tax/high service models for government. If I want to pay high tax, I'll move to Europe.
Imagine being in Germany and paying huge tax rates, only to have your tax euros going to bail out Greece.
I would consider Barry Obama a centerist, which by American standards is practically a pinko commie. The whole left/right thing really depends on perspective.
I would consider GW Bush a center-right fiscal and social conservative. Rick Perry would be a true right winger. I much prefer the fiscal conservative libertarian stance of Ron Paul.
About the liberals/socialists thing. It was a syntax error. I realize that liberalism and socialism are different. I wanted responses from BOTH liberals AND socialists. The "/" should have been "and". I actually did explain this earlier
A commonality between liberals and socialists is big government and high tax. So my original question applies to both ideologies.
I realize WHY taxes are high. I ask how this can be justified? I thought liberals were supposed to be all for the working class.
Once you start working in a skilled job and eventually start earning anything above an entry level salary, you'll be bent over a barrel too. It is not fun.
In your case, 49% in a country where the government provides very little in the way of services and welfare sounds very unfair, especially if you are working class as you claim.
The 3 workplace injuries I've had in 9 years, the blisters on my feet and hands, my two shot knees and the fact that the bank owns my car and my home remind me every day I'm working class, and I am proud of it. Don't call that into question.
It can't be justified. Compared to other countries, America receives close to nothing in government aid besides the most minimal support, such as welfare. The government believes that it is the role of the middle class and people like yourself to cover the costs of the lazy or disabled Americans who don't want to earn their living. The majority of people who are on welfare are capable of working but prefer to sponge off the rest of our society. This is one of the most controversial aspects of the liberal agenda since a large part of our society opposes it. Notice how when a liberal President comes into power, taxes inevitably rise, and when a conservative comes in, they go down. I do not support either side, since they both have many flaws, but I have to agree with conservatives on this one. Then again, I'm a proponent of social darwinism.
All you folks quoting European tax rates, remember, North America, especially the US was originally settled by Europeans trying to escape government oppression.
To that point I will say only this: who sounds more oppressed? The people living in Europe with a very good welfare safety net, free/cheap university, free/cheap healthcare, or Americans who have to pay taxes, and on top of that for disproportionately expensive services off their own back?
I ask how this can be justified?
I suppose American 'liberals' must use the example of Europe all the time as a working model of liberal capitalism. Nevertheless your personal story gives me the impression that Americans have a raw deal. Paying high taxes, getting nothing back, and then having to pay for all essential services yourselves.
Imagine being in Germany and paying huge tax rates, only to have your tax euros going to bail out Greece.
German tax rates are actually pretty low compared to a lot of other European countries. And yes it may be unpopular to bail out Greece, but if they're going to champion the Euro, they have to put their money where their mouth is.
Don't call that into question.
I wasn't calling it into question. I was making the point that the tax rate you quoted for the American working classes was indeed a high one.
I have a question for you though. Where you say 'if I want to pay high taxes I'll move to Europe'. You've already shown that you already pay high taxes. Why don't you just move to Europe and actually get something back for those taxes. 50% is very high. There are very few countries where working class people have to pay that much. But the common benefit is that whatever the tax rate, you would most likely get decent government services in return.
Obamacare alone sets him to the far left. It's a socialist style policy
1 left policy alone does not make some1 far-left. you have to check the whole pics. i bet some people here think i'm a racist because i hate the usa. but i'm evrything but a racist xD.
small views makes you small minded
Imagine being in Germany and paying huge tax rates, only to have your tax euros going to bail out Greece.
atleast we try to safe a country whit the money. not spend it on "general motors" wich in the end is unable to make good cars anyway. or spend billions on killing people.
Well, no. Germany has about 2 trillion Euros debts and the debt is growing. Here's the source. Okay, the debt per person is "only" half as high as in the USA but still... btw, you can also see that the debt in Switzerland is actually falling although the people could vote for lower taxes (direct democracy) and although 30% of the people are right winged.
Is there ANY rightwing country doing well in the world? Okay, maybe china, but they're practically a dictatorship...
China is led by the Communist party, so they're rather left winged.
no they are not they are not even communist anymore.
It's an authoritarian single-party state. To me it's a dictatorship.
These aren't three parties but three bodies of the government e.g. the PLA is the army.
Here you go with the parties. There are several parties BUT it's a de facto single-party state.
The dominance over the political system is such that China is effectively a single-party state. This means that only one political party, the CPC, holds effective power at the national level. Eight minor parties also participate in the political system under the leadership of the major party. The PRC political system allows for the participation of some non-party members and minor parties in the National People's Congress (NPC), but they are vetted by the CPC. Although opposition parties are not formally banned in mainland China (the PRC), the CPC maintains control over the political system in several ways.
And this is from your link: From your link:
The legal power of the Communist Party is guaranteed by the PRC constitution and its position as the supreme political authority in the PRC is realised through its comprehensive control of the state, military, and media.[2] According to a prominent government spokesman: We will never simply copy the system of Western countries or introduce a system of multiple parties holding office in rotation, although Chinaâs state organs have different responsibilities, they all adhere to the line, principles and policies of the party.[3]
[quote]We will never simply copy the system of Western countries or introduce a system of multiple parties holding office in rotation, although China�s state organs have different responsibilities
[/quote]
and i can't say they are doing a bad job. better then many western countries. and they have some sort of democracy because they have elections evry 5 year.
As a citizen you have to pay taxes for the better tomorrow and for hard working souls like yourself. Now the 50% in the grand scheme of things actually comes back to you in the future in another paycheck really because the government Temporarily borrows it for the greater good.
Now i know 50% is unfair but as a citizen you must pay taxes for a better future. But if STILL not satisfied, go public! We didn't create a representative democracy for nothing did we?
Also in future, you will get an awesome R.O.I.= retirement,$40,000 interest a year(If you can get it there)and so much more. Keep working hard to make your future more plausible! =D
~Jouster500
I agree. Taxes go towards the greater good. Without taxes, no Highways, Schools, Police, Fire Department, laws...
and i can't say they are doing a bad job. better then many western countries.
Except for the violation of human rights and all that stuff...
and they have some sort of democracy because they have elections evry 5 year.
It's maybe a democracy on paper but it's still a single-party dictarship in my opinion.
As for switzerland, 30% is NOT a majority.
But another 30% votes for center-right parties. Together with them it's a majority.
And the rightwing parties in switzerland are more liberal than the Democrats in the US.
I'm not quite sure what you want to say with that because Americans use the word liberal different than the rest of the world. But our right-wing party is pretty much like the Republicans not like the Democrats.
Okay, that was pretty much off-topic. But I think we can all agree that you pay way too much taxes considering what your government provides.
For your high income tax, blame the republicans in your state legislature and congress. I, as a progressive democrat, want to make sure EVERYONE PAYS THE SAME AMOUNT. No bull**** where one group gets taxed more than another unless they use more government plans or are in the top 1% of the American population in how much money they have. The Bush Tax Cuts don't help the working class, only the upper.
You really don't have much to complain about. The only thing stopping the bank from foreclosing my house is that its value has gone so far down. One of our cars was repo'd two years ago. Although, I do sympathize with your situation.
