I just went over my household budget and something really bothered me. Once I factored in sales tax and various other government user fees and added that to my total income tax, the government taxed away 49% of my income last year.
Almost half of what I earned with my hard work, my sweat and literally my blood on a few occasions TAKEN from me by the government.
How can liberalism/socialism justify taking HALF of what I EARN through my own hard work? How is this moral? How is this fair?
FYI I am not "RICH". I am working class. So don't even start on the Tax the Rich Because They Don't Pay Their Fair Share rhetoric.
You know that liberalism and socialism are two totally different things, right? From wiki:
Liberalism (from the Latin liberalis, "of freedom"[1] is the belief in the importance of liberty and equal rights.[2] Liberals espouse a wide array of views depending on their understanding of these principles, but most liberals support such fundamental ideas as constitutionalism, liberal democracy, free and fair elections, human rights, free trade, and the freedom of religion.
In Europe (or at least in Switzerland) we use the word "Liberals" for center parties that are pro Capitalism and against big taxations (ergo for small governments).
And this is Socialism:
Socialism /ËsoÊÊÉlɪzÉm/ is an economic system in which the means of production are publicly or commonly owned and controlled cooperatively; or a political philosophy advocating such a system.[1] As a form of social organization, socialism is based on co-operative social relations and self-management; relatively equal power-relations and the reduction or elimination of hierarchy in the management of economic and political affairs.
If you have to pay 49% of your income as taxes then I'd say this is way too much. If you were rich then it would be something else.
In Europe (or at least in Switzerland) we use the word "Liberals" for center parties that are pro Capitalism and against big taxations (ergo for small governments).
I'm actually glad you pointed this out. When Americans debate politics, they often confuse people from other countries.
Liberals in most parts of the world are trying to move towards capitalism, whereas liberals in America tend to move more towards socialism. There's a difference between your average liberal and your American Liberal.
Really socialism? I thought we'd decided that it was a fairly bad idea, and capitalism was the way to go?
UN, have you differentiated between state and federal taxes? They do go towards different causes, and I'm not entirely sure here, but it's possible that the economic state has a lot to do with this.
UN, have you differentiated between state and federal taxes? They do go towards different causes, and I'm not entirely sure here, but it's possible that the economic state has a lot to do with this.
This is my total tax burden. I looked at all my household spending, worked out my total sales tax paid, added property tax and both levels of income tax. In short I did a detailed total of all taxes paid.
I think that the current state of the economy is caused partly by this excessive tax burden. If my total tax rate was, say 25%, I would have an extra 24% of my income to spend into the economy, supporting business, helping create jobs ect.
Back to my original question. It should have read "Question to all Liberals AND Socialists" I know there is a distinction between socialism and free market liberalism. HOWEVER, liberal governments around the world tend to believe in strong central government and certain elements of socialism have crept into liberal parties. For example, the Liberal Party of Canada campaigned on a promise of a national daycare service. A very socialist concept, nationalizing what is currently a private industry. Either way, I wanted answers from both economic centerists and leftists.
One can be both capitalist and be pro large government. There is no reason why a capitalist economy cannot exist within the framework of a large government. America is the prime example of this.
FYI, I do not belong to the TEA party. I am a fiscal conservative, but my social views are libertarian. "Get your government off of my freedom."
FYI I am not "RICH". I am working class. So don't even start on the Tax the Rich Because They Don't Pay Their Fair Share rhetoric.
I think the American Dream mythos is very important to the political and economic stability of America. As soon as Americans stop believing that they live in a country where anyone 'can make it' then you are in big trouble. The only answer I have for you would be that these taxes should be going to help create equality of opportunity in the states. How effectively these taxes are spent and whether or not they really make a difference is another question.
But hey, I spoke to a Dutch guy the other day about this, in relation to Holland of course. He's done his masters in fiscal economy, and he said the average Dutchman pays 79% in tax after taking into account direct and indirect taxation. On the other hand, they get a hell of a lot in return for this, free university education, 500 Euros a month living expences paid, completely gratis, and of course free healthcare. In that context I think 79% sounds reasonable. In your case, 49% in a country where the government provides very little in the way of services and welfare sounds very unfair, especially if you are working class as you claim.
dutch universitys are not compleetly free. you have to pay ahead. but when you compleet the school whitin the time period given. then you will get about 80 to 90% of your money back. the longer you take to compleet it the less you get back.
500 Euros a month living expences paid
this is only partly true. do get those 500 euro you 1st have to work atleast 40 weeks in the last 2 year. and you are forced to search for work while you get this money. and when you do have work you will no longer get the 500 euro.
and of course free healthcare
also partly true. healthcare is free only if you pay a company 100 euro a month. and even then not all healthcare will be paid for. but the most commen and normale things that can happen to any1 are taken care of.
this is only partly true. do get those 500 euro you 1st have to work atleast 40 weeks in the last 2 year. and you are forced to search for work while you get this money. and when you do have work you will no longer get the 500 euro.
i should add that you will get this money for a max of 3 year. after 3 year you wont get money anymore. if you didn't find work because you are "labor inappropriate". then you will still get the 500 euro however. you have to do medical tests each year to determine how much "labor inappropriate" you are. only people that are 100% will get the money for the rest of that year whitout being forced/helped to find work. even people that are 80% "labor inappropriate" are being helpt to find work by the government.
Please don't triple post. And in response to the OP, there are several main reasons that taxes are so high right now.
A) We're currently under the leadership of a far left, liberal President. In general, liberals prefer a larger government. This means more jobs inside the government and more taxes to support the tons of new jobs.
B) The economy is struggling. The government needs that extra money to pay back the trillions of dollars in debt that we owe out to other countries.
Also, before making a post like this, you should probably understand that liberalism and socialism are two completely different entities.
there are several main reasons that taxes are so high right now.
A) We're currently under the leadership of a far left, liberal President. In general, liberals prefer a larger government. This means more jobs inside the government and more taxes to support the tons of new jobs.
B) The economy is struggling. The government needs that extra money to pay back the trillions of dollars in debt that we owe out to other countries.
Also, before making a post like this, you should probably understand that liberalism and socialism are two completely different entities.
i was only replying on a misunderstanding about that all those things are free in the netherlands.
Cheers for clearing that up. He must have been speaking in hyperbole.
this is only partly true. do get those 500 euro you 1st have to work atleast 40 weeks in the last 2 year. and you are forced to search for work while you get this money. and when you do have work you will no longer get the 500 euro.
I do have a couple of mates considering going to Ducth uni. Actually, it's a very popular choice in the UK, now that the fees have gone up to £9k a year. Apparently if you're a foreign student you can get 280 euros per month off the government, a grant, not a loan if you work a minimum of 8 hours per week.
We're currently under the leadership of a far left, liberal President.
LOLwut? Obama is far left? I would describe him as center, maybe even center-right... (This here supports my views)
i'm dutch, i did study economy (not master) and yea 79% is for the mid/high classes very realistic.
That is way too much in my opinion. In Switzerland we pay about 27% for tax, basic health insurance and social security. The number is from 2010 (Here's the source, but it's in German).
