ForumsWEPRTiny Neutrinos May Have Broken Cosmic Speed Limit - Roll over, Einstein?

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partydevil
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partydevil
5,129 posts
Jester

CERN in geneva has published it's 1st big results.
do you think this can be true? and what are your ideas about of this news?

NY Times article

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Freakenstein
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Freakenstein
9,504 posts
Jester

I don't think a few nanoseconds is a big deal, but in the future, they may be able to harness the "neutrinos" to accelerate the speed much faster. I'm excited, really. I just saw that at 11:40 when I got up; it was a pretty interesting read.

uselessnoob
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uselessnoob
154 posts
Nomad

Let's just wait and see. Until the results are duplicated this should be taken with a grain of salt. Remember "cold fusion"?

dair5
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dair5
3,371 posts
Shepherd

My science teacher told me about this and I found it very intresting. But like uselessnoob said, we should wait for the results to be duplicated.

Kyouzou
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Kyouzou
5,061 posts
Jester

Considering how much of our physics is based on the work of Einstein, this could change how we study the world forever. Provided CERN is able to provide suitable evidence to develop a theory.

MageGrayWolf
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MageGrayWolf
9,462 posts
Farmer

The concept of neutrinos moving faster than light isn't new. Though I don't know how well established it was.

Bladerunner679
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Bladerunner679
2,487 posts
Blacksmith

I heard of this story earlier today, what a coincidence.

even if it's by nanoseconds, that result is still a major discovery, but from what I am guessing, I think in order for us to be able to travel faster than the speed of light, we will need exponents more energy than what it took to get the neutrinos moving at that speed.

HahiHa
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HahiHa
8,256 posts
Regent

even if it's by nanoseconds, that result is still a major discovery, but from what I am guessing, I think in order for us to be able to travel faster than the speed of light, we will need exponents more energy than what it took to get the neutrinos moving at that speed.

With the current model, in order for anything with a mass to even go to light speed, you'd need infinite energy. Even if the model isn't 100% right, you'd still probably need more energy than is in our whole universe to propulse a human, let alone a vehicle of some sort, to near-lightspeed. But if thatneutrino thing is true and applicable, I'm sure we can take profit of properties of neutrinos and other stuff in some aspects; maybe mainly analytic ones (I guess).
grimml
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grimml
879 posts
Nomad

I find this really interesting especially since I'm studying physics.

I don't think a few nanoseconds is a big deal

It is a big deal. Those few nanoseconds could prove that Einstein's special theory of relativity is wrong. So many things that we worked out in the last years are based on the STR.

Now we have to wait and see if the scientists at CERN find a solution. Maybe it was just a systematic error which the group failed to see.
dair5
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dair5
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Shepherd

I find this really interesting especially since I'm studying physics.


Me too!

Now we have to wait and see if the scientists at CERN find a solution. Maybe it was just a systematic error which the group failed to see.


Yeah. I think they should have tried to keep it to themselves and verify it with other scientists first. That way they could tell us with certainty, and no one could possibly prove them wrong publicly.
EnterOrion
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EnterOrion
4,220 posts
Nomad

Those few nanoseconds could prove that Einstein's special theory of relativity is wrong.


Just one aspect. I can imagine that most of it is still accurate by modern standards, and more than applicable to the universe at large.

We're getting to the point nowadays where breaking laws of the universe is going to become more and more common. For all we know, these laws of the universe aren't really laws at all but just things that make things work most of the time, as opposed to all.

Come on CERN, duplicate!
grimml
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grimml
879 posts
Nomad

Yeah. I think they should have tried to keep it to themselves and verify it with other scientists first. That way they could tell us with certainty, and no one could possibly prove them wrong publicly.


I think they did the right thing. They couldn't find an error so they ask other scientists to help them.


"When you don't find anything, then you say 'well, now I'm forced to go out and ask the community to scrutinise this'."

Friday's meeting was designed to begin this process, with hopes that other scientists will find inconsistencies in the measurements and, hopefully, repeat the experiment elsewhere.

"Despite the large [statistical] significance of this measurement that you have seen and the stability of the analysis, since it has a potentially great impact on physics, this motivates the continuation of our studies in order to find still-unknown systematic effects," Dr Ereditato told the meeting.

Source
dair5
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dair5
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Shepherd

I think they did the right thing. They couldn't find an error so they ask other scientists to help them.


Oh that's what they did? I was wrong then.

How long do you think it will take for someone else to duplicate the results?
grimml
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grimml
879 posts
Nomad

I'm not sure. Maybe 2 or 3 months? They need to observe several neutrinos to have a significant result.

Did you know that this was observed before in the Fermilab in Illinois?

partydevil
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partydevil
5,129 posts
Jester

The concept of neutrinos moving faster than light isn't new.


actualy it is. until now scientists thought they were going near the speed of light. so a bit slower then lightspeed.

I think they should have tried to keep it to themselves and verify it with other scientists first. That way they could tell us with certainty, and no one could possibly prove them wrong publicly.


it's very hard to duplicate their experiments because you will need a 2nd CERN for that. (or some other still unknown way) they have annaunced this because of 2 reasons. 1 is so that other scientists now know about it and can try to duplicate it on their own. (getting some sort of hype going at other scientists.)
and 2nd because evry1, especialy those that have spend money on CERN. are waiting for CERN to give some new groundbreaking views or possibilities (theorys). the presure on the researchers is very high and people want to know what they are doing there.

Did you know that this was observed before in the Fermilab in Illinois

what i understood was that they thought that neutrinos went 1/billion slower then light speed. but that the measurements they used are not as preciesly correct as they used at CERN.
CommanderDude7
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CommanderDude7
4,689 posts
Nomad

Well its a good thing I didnt decide to take physics this year. Seriously though the possibilities if this is confirmed are awesome.

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