I'm actually kind of pissed off that you said that, because Israel =/= Jews. I've seen way to many arguments that people say Jews are bad, because the person disagrees with an action of Israel.
[quote]I've seen way to many arguments that people say Jews are bad, because the person disagrees with an action of Israel.
Then should we say that the Jews in Israel are bad? Guns versus civilian Palestinian's armed with stones? Even with tear gas, the Israeli army manages to kill. I saw recently that an activist was shot in the face by a tear gas canister and died.
Its these sort of things that give Israel and Jews a bad light.
Then should we say that the Jews in Israel are bad?
That's equally terrible and extremely racist.
Guns versus civilian Palestinian's armed with stones? Even with tear gas, the Israeli army manages to kill. I saw recently that an activist was shot in the face by a tear gas canister and died.
Links.
Its these sort of things that give Israel and Jews a bad light.
I typed 'killed with tear gas' for a Google search. This was the first result. This was the second.
Tear gas is meant to be used as a way to safely break up crowds of protestors. The fact that it happens to kill someone because soldiers are misusing them doesn't say anything about the israeli government. They aren't telling the soldiers to use it like they did, what it says about the government is they need to discipline their soldiers better. Also, it's not like they meant to kill him, he was taken to a hospital. Israel isn't even the only middle eastern country that uses tear gas.
Israel is known for taking out threats. When you live in a country who's existence has been threatened each and every day since day one, I might take that argument into consideration. You have no idea how many times Israel has been on the brink of destruction. You have no valid basis for criticizing their policies to bomb nuclear facilities of hostile nations. If you do that, than you have to condemn the US for taking out bin Laden, al-Alwaki, and other attacks in Pakistan. Furthermore, you must condemn NATO, France, and the US for bombings in Libya.
Given that the countries have not declared a nuclear program that is aimed at making weapons, it seems to me to be a tad bit cautious and aggressive for Israelis to just bomb military sites or suspected targets of other nations.
I'm actually kind of pissed off that you said that, because Israel =/= Jews. I've seen way to many arguments that people say Jews are bad, because the person disagrees with an action of Israel.
I interchangeably use Israeli and Jew, mainly because the Israeli Jews are the ones concerned over Arab attacks whilst the Israeli Arabs are more sidelined. Given that the IDF employs mainly Jewish soldiers, I think it's fair to use both terms. And no, don't pull out the race card, because such an argument is ad hominem if you call others racist.
1) They have no documents of ownership of land. Anyone who looks like a Palestinian could try to get free land. 2) There ISN'T enough land. Unless they were willing to live in the heart of the Negev, Israel couldn't give up land to them anymore than they have. 3) Security threats. Any radicalized Palestinian allowed to walk through customs and into Israel is a nightmare waiting to happen.
Do people actually buy land before living in it now? I'm puzzled as to why you take ''return to his homeland'' so literally in that land wil be parcelled out to Palestinians.
When you live in a country who's existence has been threatened each and every day since day one, I might take that argument into consideration.
I live in such a nation where from Day 1 in school we get national education classes on how we will be destroyed from the inside and outside.
It doesn't mean that I haven't lived in so and so place I have no ''valid basis'' to criticize such policies. In that case, no nation in the world should criticize a policy of another nation. YOU shouldn't criticize the policy of say Iran in making nukes, or whether Syria buys missiles. Because you don't live in the nation, and hence have no right to criticize.
If you do that, than you have to condemn the US for taking out bin Laden, al-Alwaki, and other attacks in Pakistan. Furthermore, you must condemn NATO, France, and the US for bombings in Libya.
Since Bin Laden brazenly declared war on America with his acts of terror, why should we criticize the hunt for him? They actively engage in terrorism against America, so there's no basis for criticizing them. On the other hand, since the Arab nations are more or less at peace with Israel, Israel has no right to engage in aggression with any of the nations on the thin assumption of threats.
Oh, and I do not condemn NATO for bombing Libya, because the Transitional Government which represented the majority of the Libyans requested for aid and bombings. Since it was the government that most NATO nations recognise, it was legitimate.
I'm actually kind of pissed off that you said that, because Israel =/= Jews. I've seen way to many arguments that people say Jews are bad, because the person disagrees with an action of Israel.
If there were no jews then there would not have had been Israel so yes Israel do make jews look bad.
I interchangeably use Israeli and Jew, mainly because the Israeli Jews are the ones concerned over Arab attacks whilst the Israeli Arabs are more sidelined.
76% of Israel is Jewish. 76% of America is Christian. There is no law in Israel that requires a Prime Minister or any other position in the government to be Jewish (on a side note, there are Arabs in the Israeli government). There is no law in America that requires anybody in the government to be Christian. While America doesn't claim to be a Christian country like israel does as a Jewish one, why aren't their actions equally weighed against Christians? They would have as much influence over the American government (and they do influence it a lot) as Jews do to the Israeli government, but America isn't interchangeably used with Christian.
Given that the IDF employs mainly Jewish soldiers, I think it's fair to use both terms
They require all Israeli citizens to join, but they give exceptions to minorities such as Arabs.
And no, don't pull out the race card, because such an argument is ad hominem if you call others racist.
I'm not quite sure what you mean by that, please elaborate.
If there were no jews then there would not have had been Israel so yes Israel do make jews look bad.
(aside from this not exactly being the point of my argument) for the (who knows how many) times on this thread, you keep making the assumption that Israel creation was a bad thing is a fact. It's not, just because you say it is doesn't mean it is. Unless everyone here agrees with that statement, it's not a fact. Using your logic, i can say that without Jews, there would not have been an Israel, therefore Jews make Israel look good. Or i can even go as far as to say that without Arabs, there would be no Arab countries, so that makes Arabs look bad.
They require all Israeli citizens to join, but they give exceptions to minorities such as Arabs.
I know that, hence my point.
76% of Israel is Jewish. 76% of America is Christian. There is no law in Israel that requires a Prime Minister or any other position in the government to be Jewish (on a side note, there are Arabs in the Israeli government). There is no law in America that requires anybody in the government to be Christian. While America doesn't claim to be a Christian country like israel does as a Jewish one, why aren't their actions equally weighed against Christians? They would have as much influence over the American government (and they do influence it a lot) as Jews do to the Israeli government, but America isn't interchangeably used with Christian.
As I have said earlier, the identity of an Israeli has been tied with a Jewish flavour. Don't ask me why, but when people say Israeli they immediately equate it with Jews.
America isn't tied with Christianity because of the notion of it being a multicultural and tolerant society and the idea that anyone of any race, culture or religion can be American. America has always been touted to be the land of the free, dreams, hope and tolerance, hence the idea of an American encompasses all ethnicities.
America has always been touted to be the land of the free, dreams, hope and tolerance, hence the idea of an American encompasses all ethnicities.
tolerance? realy? i find my country much more tolerant then the usa.
the only real americans are the red skin. evry american that isn't. has grand grand grand family living outside the usa. so 95%+ isn't original from that place.
the only real americans are the red skin. evry american that isn't. has grand grand grand family living outside the usa. so 95%+ isn't original from that place.
Yes tolerance. So what if other nations are more tolerant? America is decent by most standards.
When I say American, I don't mean natives. I mean the concept of American nationality, which if you have to be pedantic is artificial. But that was what I was getting at, the concept of an American citizen of the USA rather than a Native American Indian. And yes I am fully aware that the USA derived from a migrant society.
(aside from this not exactly being the point of my argument) for the (who knows how many) times on this thread, you keep making the assumption that Israel creation was a bad thing is a fact. It's not, just because you say it is doesn't mean it is. Unless everyone here agrees with that statement, it's not a fact. Using your logic, i can say that without Jews, there would not have been an Israel, therefore Jews make Israel look good. Or i can even go as far as to say that without Arabs, there would be no Arab countries, so that makes Arabs look bad.
You said
Israel =/= Jews
And in answer I said that had have not been jews, Israel would not have existed.So, Israel = jews as Israel = jews Every thing done by Israel effects peoples perception of jews.
but America isn't interchangeably used with Christian.
It would be if there weren't different sects. If every Christian was Catholic, then America would likely be associated with Catholicism. The difference between Jews and Christians is that nearly all Jews follow the same set of religious beliefs, where Christians constantly argue over which details and interpretations are right.
Racist/anti-Semitic comment. Whichever floats your boat.
Given that the countries have not declared a nuclear program that is aimed at making weapons, it seems to me to be a tad bit cautious and aggressive for Israelis to just bomb military sites or suspected targets of other nations.
I interchangeably use Israeli and Jew, mainly because the Israeli Jews are the ones concerned over Arab attacks whilst the Israeli Arabs are more sidelined.
That's because many of them don't give a **** if Israel isn't a Jewish state. Obviously, the Jews do. However, it is really impolite in a debate setting to just generalize two things, however common, when there are distinct differences.
Since Bin Laden brazenly declared war on America with his acts of terror, why should we criticize the hunt for him? They actively engage in terrorism against America, so there's no basis for criticizing them.
If it counts as a double post, I am sorry, but I forgot to quote the article...
"This deal is a formality that doesn't meet our expectations. The second stage of this deal didn't include old, ill or handicapped prisoners. It also didn't include the remaining five female prisoners inside Israeli jails. This deal was solely controlled by the Israeli side," Issa Qaraqe, the Palestinian Authority minister of Detainees and Ex-detainees Affairs, told CNN.
This part especially disgusts me. The Palestinians here expect to receive everything they want, and more, for one Israeli soldier. In fact, Hamas is already calling for more kidnapping of Israeli soldiers to get more "olitical prisoners" released. Nicho, you must condemn this as barbaric and plain evil.
"We insist that going back to the negotiation table will not happen without the immediate halt of all settlement activities ... and the recognition of the state borders, including Jerusalem, and the release of all prisoners as agreed to with the previous Israeli government," Rahim said.
So much for wanting to go to the table. If this is granted, than there will be nothing to negotiate. The only thing that I agree with is the stopping of building housing units in contested territory. Jerusalem doesn't count, so I feel that Israel could build away in the city. However, this proves that it is the Palestinians, not the Israelis, who are hindering the peace process.
"We will welcome and celebrate the prisoners in the Mukataa upon their release. The fact that the release will take place during the night will not affect our celebrations. Israel decided to release them at night with the wrong assumption that this will affect the intensity of the celebrations. The celebrations will start tonight and will continue for several days in different districts and towns, each prisoner will be celebrated in his own hometown," Qaraqe said.
Here they celebrate criminals, who were duly convicted under the law. They committed crimes in Israel, and were charged and sentenced in Israel. If an Israeli went into a Palestinian country (theoretical), and they committed a crime, you can bet your *** that they would be tried there, and if convicted, serve their time there. It is another example of the Palestinians, "The rules apply to everyone but me" view of the situation. Disgusting.
