I know, thats why I tried a sort of finishing post. But new people will probably revive this sooner or later.
For the rest-
well at least you got your *** off the "isreal are the goody good guys" but still i feel you just wanna try to talk stuff right for your people.
i rather have a grey political correctness, then a black and white one...
you like to put people against each other in a black and white situation i know that. as soon i said i do not support Israel, you jumped in the conclusion that i glorify hamas...
Don't get the idea I see this as black and white as a whole, nor that I think you are 100% wrong because you found some fault with us.
Like I said, wars are not knight duels.You can easily find fault with any war related decision any side makes. That's why you can never have the 'perfect good guys'. I don't think my country is the exception but that's why I use the relative talk.
Compared to them, the majority in my country wants peace and can live with any decision that will come. Our extreme rightists don't decide our actions because our country is a solid democracy. They on the other hand, have many small political and military autonomous organisations that the main ones can't control. If their extreme rightists want war, they will drag all the rest to it.
Bottom line, peace isn't as simple as "if both sides put down their weapons and grow up". So the next time you accuse one politician or the other, try to think first what could he do differently. Because there is wrong with any decision, but so is taking non at all.
Personally, I believe politicians actually have good intentions most of the time. So wheres the results? Maybe its impossible to manage them until we pull a cultural change.
Hell, if I was born on the other side I might have joined Hamas. Its a world of interests after all, not a good and evil one. USA support Israel because of self interests.
Things are just going to get nastier after Likud got re-elected, the Iranians are ramping up their military activity in the wake of the Syrian Civil War, and with ISIS waging an incredibly destructive war for a so called terrorist organisation. It's more of a full blown war, with an efficient military machine that is composed of not just hallmark terrorist attacks, but an actual organised army.
Will the maxim "The enemy of my enemy is my friend" work out here? Even the Americans are begrudgingly giving leeway to the Iranians on the ground, even if they're not going to actually cooperate with them directly.
I personally don't like Israel's government policies and their political ideology. They're collectivists, just like Europe. I'm a libertarian in the USA.
I know someone here said that the only way conflict will end in the Middle East is when a peace treaty is made. This is easy to say - but it is a totally different demon to face when it comes to actually getting stuff done. Netanyahu (the man recently re-elected as Israeli prime minister) said that he doesn't want to back down. He later sort of took that back and said they are working towards a treaty, but honestly I don't see this happening for a long long time. And even if this does happen, I don't think the Israeli people will be that happy with it. It seems to me like they want to continue to fight (that's the reason Netanyahu was re-elected, because he supports not "backing down". Anyways, this whole situation is actually VERY confusing to me. I just really hate to see so many people suffer, all the time. it sucks ***.
Anyways, this whole situation is actually VERY confusing to me. I just really hate to see so many people suffer, all the time. it sucks ***.
Unlike what you probably hear (from western media and such), the West bank is hardly the main factor in elections here. Its got much more to do with Economics, Iran, experience, stance on religion, military past, who are the other leaders in the party, etc. But probably mostly Economics.
That said, nobody wants a war. Were all people with families here, most of us have friends who got injured or died in Gaza. Why would anybody who has family and friends want to get called to a war?
@Mickeyryn The Palestinians, under the Muslim Brotherhood, refused peace and made a coalition to kill all the Jews in the region. Now HAMAS wants the same thing. The Muslim Brotherhood of Palestine hated the west, so does HAMAS. HAMAS will never go to peace, and they keep violating peace treaties. HAMAS also is enforcing Sharia Law in the Gaza strip and murdering political opponents in the Gaza Strip, notably Fatah members. HAMAS also supports ISIS, and tried getting Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi (he has the same name as one of the Rashidun caliphs, Abu Bakr al-Rashid) to help them in attacking Israel, which Abu Bakr replied saying, "We need to consolidate ourselves and weaken America first." The wave of strict Islamic rule in the middle east will never allow peace with the infidel nor peace with the other Muslim sects (there's always been a battle between Sunni and Shia since Muhammad's death).
@Thrillology The Israeli government has also underwritten a significant number of illegal assassinations on foreign soil. So, you know, swings and roundabouts.
@09philj Sounds like Obama, except that one of those people Obama droned was an American teenager.
@partydevil To prevent 9/11 from happening again...? ISIS will try to do what Osama Bin Ladin, as claimed by Abu Bakr al-Baghadadi (the ISIS caliph). If you think we're fighting for oil, then where's that oil? Besides, the USA is oil independent, big thanks to hydraulic fracking.
@thrillology And then there was the whole business with Bush and the illegal war. As I said, swings and roundabouts. Everybody is guilty to some degree.
the same ridicules reasons why the usa keeps going to war?
Partydevil, you fail to understand the Israeli mindset. War here isn't a far away place. Me and almost all my friends would be called to it as part of the reserve army. And the last thing you can say about our wars is that its somehow helpful to the economy. What the vast majority wants is solid peace and I've yet to find someone who would give his life for a simple reason like expansion.
I don't believe even the hardest right wingers you know will want a war if they would be sent in as soldiers. Some of them might believe its necessary, but no sane person would want it if it isn't. The war films around aren't too far from the reality.
And then there was the whole business with Bush and the illegal war.
Ah yes, the "illegal" war. Where we had the nerve to unjustly invade a nation that was doing everything in its power to look like it was developing nuclear weapons, refused to allow U.N. nuclear inspectors into its borders (then threatened them once they'd gotten in), and forged documents to make every intelligence agency on the planet think it had weapons banned by the Geneva Convention. All under the orders of a despotic monster that tested chemical and biological weapons on his own people while torturing anyone who didn't vote for him. But no, you're totally right, it was all an illegal war by the U.S. meant solely to acquire oil for the Bush family. The U.S. government also faked 9/11 so they'd have an excuse to go to war and has been hiding the existence of aliens from the world for 70 years.
@Thrillology The U.S. also has decades worth of oil reserves we drilled out of Texas and Alaska before we started fracking, and we get the vast majority of our oil from Canada and Russia. Realistically, buying oil from the Middle East is more of a charity than a necessity.
@Ishtaron I can't believe I forgot about that, too, and here I am living in the oil capital of the world!
And as for that conspiracy theorist you quoted, those guys are a bunch of agenda-based partisan people who want to try to undermine the Republican Party -- even if that means making the most absurd statements (i.e claiming Bush did 9/11 to look like a hero).
And as for that conspiracy theorist you quoted, those guys are a bunch of agenda-based partisan people who want to try to undermine the Republican Party -- even if that means making the most absurd statements (i.e claiming Bush did 9/11 to look like a hero).
Actually, I was just being sarcastic to show how ridiculous it is to call the Iraq War "illegal". It's an old and weak attack on the Bush presidency that holds no real merit against the facts. The people who call it an illegal war also like to point to the lack of U.N. support for the invasion as proof that we never should have done it, I in turn like to point to the inaction of the League of Nations as proof that allied European nations don't do squat until France or England get invaded.
