ForumsWEPRYou support Israel? I DO

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bobbyr5
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bobbyr5
7 posts
Nomad

I just feel the morals and ethics of the middle east aren't right compared to any western country.

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HahiHa
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HahiHa
8,256 posts
Regent

That said, nobody wants a war. Were all people with families here, most of us have friends who got injured or died in Gaza. Why would anybody who has family and friends want to get called to a war?

Netanjahu does want a war with Iran, has wanted for some time now; and from what I've read, it's only thanks to the Israeli military and the secret service that Bibi hasn't been successful with his fix idea yet.

To prevent 9/11 from happening again...? ISIS will try to do what Osama Bin Ladin, as claimed by Abu Bakr al-Baghadadi (the ISIS caliph). If you think we're fighting for oil, then where's that oil? Besides, the USA is oil independent, big thanks to hydraulic fracking.

Indeed, oil might have only been secondary to some conflicts. But going to war to repair your mistakes (like supporting the wrong people) and ending up making things worse is hardly better. And justifying war with the fight against terrorism when war was a decisive factor in leading to this situation always seemed hypocritical to me. Naturally, it would be wrong to claim that any of this was ever intended by anyone; no reasonable critic of the American wars, nay, no reasonable person, ever gave any credit to the 9/11 conspiracies.
09philj
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09philj
2,825 posts
Jester

Ah yes, the "illegal" war. Where we had the nerve to unjustly invade a nation that was doing everything in its power to look like it was developing nuclear weapons, refused to allow U.N. nuclear inspectors into its borders (then threatened them once they'd gotten in), and forged documents to make every intelligence agency on the planet think it had weapons banned by the Geneva Convention

Based on intel from a dodgy dossier. Not to deny that Saddam was a monster, but I suspect the Chilcot Inquiry will present a lot of very interesting findings about what happened between Bush and his doormat Blair.

partydevil
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partydevil
5,129 posts
Jester

To prevent 9/11 from happening again...? ISIS will try to do what Osama Bin Ladin, as claimed by Abu Bakr al-Baghadadi (the ISIS caliph). If you think we're fighting for oil, then where's that oil? Besides, the USA is oil independent, big thanks to hydraulic fracking.

well.. i dont just look at the past 15 year, sorry. the usa has been in state of war for 93% of it's existence. there is much more to it then just the popular reasoning that you just made. its a matter of cultural influences. things like ignorance, pride, heroism and a few more. their culture is partly focused on self propagandizing. what means that old propaganda is excepted into the society, (by success of winning wars in their case) to the point where it does not need to be propagated anymore. because usa's propaganda has always been influenced by war, did it turn out as a militaristic culture. and you can see that back in different parts of their culture. from 93% state of war to the sloppy gun laws and high crime rate...

Partydevil, you fail to understand the Israeli mindset. War here isn't a far away place.
very good point. i forgot about that for a minute. the connection i made with usa's culture is wrong. they have not really been in war like that for a much to long time.. maybe it's time to let them remember how it is? (did this post just add my name to their blacklist? xD lol)
Thrillology
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Thrillology
79 posts
Shepherd

@partydevil You can't be serious that you think the USA has been at war for 93% of its existence. Are you trolling, or are you just your typical progressive?

What you described is basically jingoism:

its a matter of cultural influences. things like ignorance, pride, heroism and a few more. their culture is partly focused on self propagandizing. what means that old propaganda is excepted into the society, (by success of winning wars in their case) to the point where it does not need to be propagated anymore.

However, the USA is not jingoist, nor is any modern country. Jingoism is dead.

sloppy gun laws and high crime rate...

The United Kingdom has a higher violent crime rate than the USA, and they have gun control, we don't. For the USA, it's 383 violent crimes per 100,000 people, whereas in the UK it's 775 violent crimes per 100,000 people. Violent crimes: violence against another person resulting in injury, sexual assault, and robberies.
09philj
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09philj
2,825 posts
Jester

The United Kingdom has a higher violent crime rate than the USA, and they have gun control, we don't. For the USA, it's 383 violent crimes per 100,000 people, whereas in the UK it's 775 violent crimes per 100,000 people.

However, the US has an intentional homicide rate of 1 in 100,000. The US has an intentional homicide rate of 4.7 in 100,000.

Also, I'm pretty sure you're quoting dodgy statistics.

DaGoblin
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DaGoblin
50 posts
Nomad


very good point. i forgot about that for a minute. the connection i made with usa's culture is wrong. they have not really been in war like that for a much to long time.. maybe it's time to let them remember how it is? (did this post just add my name to their blacklist? xD lol)

oh boy
09philj
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09philj
2,825 posts
Jester

Oops, in previous post it should read "However, the UK has an intentional homicide rate of 1 in 100,000. The US has an intentional homicide rate of 4.7 in 100,000."

HahiHa
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HahiHa
8,256 posts
Regent

I think we ought to stop discussing British and American crime statistics and wars in this thread...

partydevil
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partydevil
5,129 posts
Jester

partydevil You can't be serious that you think the USA has been at war for 93% of its existence.

i dont think it, just learn your historical facts... if you count multiple wars in 1 year as multiple years, then you even end up with more year in war then year existing... but for now.. 222 Out of 239 Years = 93%

Year-by-year Timeline of America’s Major Wars (1776-2015)

1776 – American Revolutionary War, Chickamagua Wars, Second Cherokee War, Pennamite-Yankee War
1777 – American Revolutionary War, Chickamauga Wars, Second Cherokee War, Pennamite-Yankee War
1778 – American Revolutionary War, Chickamauga Wars, Pennamite-Yankee War
1779 – American Revolutionary War, Chickamauga Wars, Pennamite-Yankee War
1780 – American Revolutionary War, Chickamauga Wars, Pennamite-Yankee War
1781 – American Revolutionary War, Chickamauga Wars, Pennamite-Yankee War
1782 – American Revolutionary War, Chickamauga Wars, Pennamite-Yankee War
1783 – American Revolutionary War, Chickamauga Wars, Pennamite-Yankee War
1784 – Chickamauga Wars, Pennamite-Yankee War, Oconee War
1785 – Chickamauga Wars, Northwest Indian War
1786 – Chickamauga Wars, Northwest Indian War
1787 – Chickamauga Wars, Northwest Indian War
1788 – Chickamauga Wars, Northwest Indian War
1789 – Chickamauga Wars, Northwest Indian War
1790 – Chickamauga Wars, Northwest Indian War
1791 – Chickamauga Wars, Northwest Indian War
1792 – Chickamauga Wars, Northwest Indian War
1793 – Chickamauga Wars, Northwest Indian War
1794 – Chickamauga Wars, Northwest Indian War
1795 – Northwest Indian War
1796 – No major war
1797 – No major war
1798 – Quasi-War
1799 – Quasi-War
1800 – Quasi-War
1801 – First Barbary War
1802 – First Barbary War
1803 – First Barbary War
1804 – First Barbary War
1805 – First Barbary War
1806 – Sabine Expedition
1807 – No major war
1808 – No major war
1809 – No major war
1810 – U.S. occupies Spanish-held West Florida
1811 – Tecumseh’s War
1812 – War of 1812, Tecumseh’s War, Seminole Wars, U.S. occupies Spanish-held Amelia Island and other parts of East Florida
1813 – War of 1812, Tecumseh’s War, Peoria War, Creek War, U.S. expands its territory in West Florida
1814 – War of 1812, Creek War, U.S. expands its territory in Florida, Anti-piracy war
1815 – War of 1812, Second Barbary War, Anti-piracy war
1816 – First Seminole War, Anti-piracy war
1817 – First Seminole War, Anti-piracy war
1818 – First Seminole War, Anti-piracy war
1819 – Yellowstone Expedition, Anti-piracy war
1820 – Yellowstone Expedition, Anti-piracy war
1821 – Anti-piracy war
1822 – Anti-piracy war
1823 – Anti-piracy war, Arikara War
1824 – Anti-piracy war
1825 – Yellowstone Expedition, Anti-piracy war
1826 – No major war
1827 – Winnebago War
1828 – No major war
1829 – No major war
1830 – No major war
1831 – Sac and Fox Indian War
1832 – Black Hawk War
1833 – Cherokee Indian War
1834 – Cherokee Indian War, Pawnee Indian Territory Campaign
1835 – Cherokee Indian War, Seminole Wars, Second Creek War
1836 – Cherokee Indian War, Seminole Wars, Second Creek War, Missouri-Iowa Border War
1837 – Cherokee Indian War, Seminole Wars, Second Creek War, Osage Indian War, Buckshot War
1838 – Cherokee Indian War, Seminole Wars, Buckshot War, Heatherly Indian War
1839 – Cherokee Indian War, Seminole Wars
1840 – Seminole Wars, U.S. naval forces invade Fiji Islands
1841 – Seminole Wars, U.S. naval forces invade McKean Island, Gilbert Islands, and Samoa
1842 – Seminole Wars
1843 – U.S. forces clash with Chinese, U.S. troops invade African coast
1844 – Texas-Indian Wars
1845 – Texas-Indian Wars
1846 – Mexican-American War, Texas-Indian Wars
1847 – Mexican-American War, Texas-Indian Wars
1848 – Mexican-American War, Texas-Indian Wars, Cayuse War
1849 – Texas-Indian Wars, Cayuse War, Southwest Indian Wars, Navajo Wars, Skirmish between 1st Cavalry and Indians
1850 – Texas-Indian Wars, Cayuse War, Southwest Indian Wars, Navajo Wars, Yuma War, California Indian Wars, Pitt River Expedition
1851 – Texas-Indian Wars, Cayuse War, Southwest Indian Wars, Navajo Wars, Apache Wars, Yuma War, Utah Indian Wars, California Indian Wars
1852 – Texas-Indian Wars, Cayuse War, Southwest Indian Wars, Navajo Wars, Yuma War, Utah Indian Wars, California Indian Wars
1853 – Texas-Indian Wars, Cayuse War, Southwest Indian Wars, Navajo Wars, Yuma War, Utah Indian Wars, Walker War, California Indian Wars
1854 – Texas-Indian Wars, Cayuse War, Southwest Indian Wars, Navajo Wars, Apache Wars, California Indian Wars, Skirmish between 1st Cavalry and Indians
1855 – Seminole Wars, Texas-Indian Wars, Cayuse War, Southwest Indian Wars, Navajo Wars, Apache Wars, California Indian Wars, Yakima War, Winnas Expedition, Klickitat War, Puget Sound War, Rogue River Wars, U.S. forces invade Fiji Islands and Uruguay
1856 – Seminole Wars, Texas-Indian Wars, Southwest Indian Wars, Navajo Wars, California Indian Wars, Puget Sound War, Rogue River Wars, Tintic War
1857 – Seminole Wars, Texas-Indian Wars, Southwest Indian Wars, Navajo Wars, California Indian Wars, Utah War, Conflict in Nicaragua
1858 – Seminole Wars, Texas-Indian Wars, Southwest Indian Wars, Navajo Wars, Mohave War, California Indian Wars, Spokane-Coeur d’Alene-Paloos War, Utah War, U.S. forces invade Fiji Islands and Uruguay
1859 Texas-Indian Wars, Southwest Indian Wars, Navajo Wars, California Indian Wars, Pecos Expedition, Antelope Hills Expedition, Bear River Expedition, John Brown’s raid, U.S. forces launch attack against Paraguay, U.S. forces invade Mexico
1860 – Texas-Indian Wars, Southwest Indian Wars, Navajo Wars, Apache Wars, California Indian Wars, Paiute War, Kiowa-Comanche War
1861 – American Civil War, Texas-Indian Wars, Southwest Indian Wars, Navajo Wars, Apache Wars, California Indian Wars, Cheyenne Campaign
1862 – American Civil War, Texas-Indian Wars, Southwest Indian Wars, Navajo Wars, Apache Wars, California Indian Wars, Cheyenne Campaign, Dakota War of 1862,
1863 – American Civil War, Texas-Indian Wars, Southwest Indian Wars, Navajo Wars, Apache Wars, California Indian Wars, Cheyenne Campaign, Colorado War, Goshute War
1864 – American Civil War, Texas-Indian Wars, Navajo Wars, Apache Wars, California Indian Wars, Cheyenne Campaign, Colorado War, Snake War
1865 – American Civil War, Texas-Indian Wars, Navajo Wars, Apache Wars, California Indian Wars, Colorado War, Snake War, Utah’s Black Hawk War
1866 – Texas-Indian Wars, Navajo Wars, Apache Wars, California Indian Wars, Skirmish between 1st Cavalry and Indians, Snake War, Utah’s Black Hawk War, Red Cloud’s War, Franklin County War, U.S. invades Mexico, Conflict with China
1867 – Texas-Indian Wars, Long Walk of the Navajo, Apache Wars, Skirmish between 1st Cavalry and Indians, Snake War, Utah’s Black Hawk War, Red Cloud’s War, Comanche Wars, Franklin County War, U.S. troops occupy Nicaragua and attack Taiwan
1868 – Texas-Indian Wars, Long Walk of the Navajo, Apache Wars, Skirmish between 1st Cavalry and Indians, Snake War, Utah’s Black Hawk War, Red Cloud’s War, Comanche Wars, Battle of Wa****a River, Franklin County War
1869 – Texas-Indian Wars, Apache Wars, Skirmish between 1st Cavalry and Indians, Utah’s Black Hawk War, Comanche Wars, Franklin County War
1870 – Texas-Indian Wars, Apache Wars, Skirmish between 1st Cavalry and Indians, Utah’s Black Hawk War, Comanche Wars, Franklin County War
1871 – Texas-Indian Wars, Apache Wars, Skirmish between 1st Cavalry and Indians, Utah’s Black Hawk War, Comanche Wars, Franklin County War, Kingsley Cave Massacre, U.S. forces invade Korea
1872 – Texas-Indian Wars, Apache Wars, Utah’s Black Hawk War, Comanche Wars, Modoc War, Franklin County War
1873 – Texas-Indian Wars, Comanche Wars, Modoc War, Apache Wars, Cypress Hills Massacre, U.S. forces invade Mexico
1874 – Texas-Indian Wars, Comanche Wars, Red River War, Mason County War, U.S. forces invade Mexico
1875 – Conflict in Mexico, Texas-Indian Wars, Comanche Wars, Eastern Nevada, Mason County War, Colfax County War, U.S. forces invade Mexico
1876 – Texas-Indian Wars, Black Hills War, Mason County War, U.S. forces invade Mexico
1877 – Texas-Indian Wars, Skirmish between 1st Cavalry and Indians, Black Hills War, Nez Perce War, Mason County War, Lincoln County War, San Elizario Salt War, U.S. forces invade Mexico
1878 – Paiute Indian conflict, Bannock War, Cheyenne War, Lincoln County War, U.S. forces invade Mexico
1879 – Cheyenne War, Sheepeater Indian War, White River War, U.S. forces invade Mexico
1880 – U.S. forces invade Mexico
1881 – U.S. forces invade Mexico
1882 – U.S. forces invade Mexico
1883 – U.S. forces invade Mexico
1884 – U.S. forces invade Mexico
1885 – Apache Wars, Eastern Nevada Expedition, U.S. forces invade Mexico
1886 – Apache Wars, Pleasant Valley War, U.S. forces invade Mexico
1887 – U.S. forces invade Mexico
1888 – U.S. show of force against Haiti, U.S. forces invade Mexico
1889 – U.S. forces invade Mexico
1890 – Sioux Indian War, Skirmish between 1st Cavalry and Indians, Ghost Dance War, Wounded Knee, U.S. forces invade Mexico
1891 – Sioux Indian War, Ghost Dance War, U.S. forces invade Mexico
1892 – Johnson County War, U.S. forces invade Mexico
1893 – U.S. forces invade Mexico and Hawaii
1894 – U.S. forces invade Mexico
1895 – U.S. forces invade Mexico, Bannock Indian Disturbances
1896 – U.S. forces invade Mexico
1897 – No major war
1898 – Spanish-American War, Battle of Leech Lake, Chippewa Indian Disturbances
1899 – Philippine-American War, Banana Wars
1900 – Philippine-American War, Banana Wars
1901 – Philippine-American War, Banana Wars
1902 – Philippine-American War, Banana Wars
1903 – Philippine-American War, Banana Wars
1904 – Philippine-American War, Banana Wars
1905 – Philippine-American War, Banana Wars
1906 – Philippine-American War, Banana Wars
1907 – Philippine-American War, Banana Wars
1908 – Philippine-American War, Banana Wars
1909 – Philippine-American War, Banana Wars
1910 – Philippine-American War, Banana Wars
1911 – Philippine-American War, Banana Wars
1912 – Philippine-American War, Banana Wars
1913 – Philippine-American War, Banana Wars, New Mexico Navajo War
1914 – Banana Wars, U.S. invades Mexico
1915 – Banana Wars, U.S. invades Mexico, Colorado Paiute War
1916 – Banana Wars, U.S. invades Mexico
1917 – Banana Wars, World War I, U.S. invades Mexico
1918 – Banana Wars, World War I, U.S invades Mexico
1919 – Banana Wars, U.S. invades Mexico
1920 – Banana Wars
1921 – Banana Wars
1922 – Banana Wars
1923 – Banana Wars, Posey War
1924 – Banana Wars
1925 – Banana Wars
1926 – Banana Wars
1927 – Banana Wars
1928 – Banana Wars
1930 – Banana Wars
1931 – Banana Wars
1932 – Banana Wars
1933 – Banana Wars
1934 – Banana Wars
1935 – No major war
1936 – No major war
1937 – No major war
1938 – No major war
1939 – No major war
1940 – No major war
1941 – World War II
1942 – World War II
1943 – Wold War II
1944 – World War II
1945 – World War II
1946 – Cold War (U.S. occupies the Philippines and South Korea)
1947 – Cold War (U.S. occupies South Korea, U.S. forces land in Greece to fight Communists)
1948 – Cold War (U.S. forces aid Chinese Nationalist Party against Communists)
1949 – Cold War (U.S. forces aid Chinese Nationalist Party against Communists)
1950 – Korean War, Jayuga Uprising
1951 – Korean War
1952 – Korean War
1953 – Korean War
1954 – Covert War in Guatemala
1955 – Vietnam War
1956 – Vietnam War
1957 – Vietnam War
1958 – Vietnam War
1959 – Vietnam War, Conflict in Haiti
1960 – Vietam War
1961 – Vietnam War
1962 – Vietnam War, Cold War (Cuban Missile Crisis; U.S. marines fight Communists in Thailand)
1963 – Vietnam War
1964 – Vietnam War
1965 – Vietnam War, U.S. occupation of Dominican Republic
1966 – Vietnam War, U.S. occupation of Dominican Republic
1967 – Vietnam War
1968 – Vietnam War
1969 – Vietnam War
1970 – Vietnam War
1971 – Vietnam War
1972 – Vietnam War
1973 – Vietnam War, U.S. aids Israel in Yom Kippur War
1974 – Vietnam War
1975 – Vietnam War
1976 – No major war
1977 – No major war
1978 – No major war
1979 – Cold War (CIA proxy war in Afghanistan)
1980 – Cold War (CIA proxy war in Afghanistan)
1981 – Cold War (CIA proxy war in Afghanistan and Nicaragua), First Gulf of Sidra Incident
1982 – Cold War (CIA proxy war in Afghanistan and Nicaragua), Conflict in Lebanon
1983 – Cold War (Invasion of Grenada, CIA proxy war in Afghanistan and Nicaragua), Conflict in Lebanon
1984 – Cold War (CIA proxy war in Afghanistan and Nicaragua), Conflict in Persian Gulf
1985 – Cold War (CIA proxy war in Afghanistan and Nicaragua)
1986 – Cold War (CIA proxy war in Afghanistan and Nicaragua)
1987 – Conflict in Persian Gulf
1988 – Conflict in Persian Gulf, U.S. occupation of Panama
1989 – Second Gulf of Sidra Incident, U.S. occupation of Panama, Conflict in Philippines
1990 – First Gulf War, U.S. occupation of Panama
1991 – First Gulf War
1992 – Conflict in Iraq
1993 – Conflict in Iraq
1994 – Conflict in Iraq, U.S. invades Haiti
1995 – Conflict in Iraq, U.S. invades Haiti, NATO bombing of Bosnia and Herzegovina
1996 – Conflict in Iraq
1997 – No major war
1998 – Bombing of Iraq, Missile strikes against Afghanistan and Sudan
1999 – Kosovo War
2000 – No major war
2001 – War on Terror in Afghanistan
2002 – War on Terror in Afghanistan and Yemen
2003 – War on Terror in Afghanistan, and Iraq
2004 – War on Terror in Afghanistan, Iraq, Pakistan, and Yemen
2005 – War on Terror in Afghanistan, Iraq, Pakistan, and Yemen
2006 – War on Terror in Afghanistan, Iraq, Pakistan, and Yemen
2007 – War on Terror in Afghanistan, Iraq, Pakistan, Somalia, and Yemen
2008 – War on Terror in Afghanistan, Iraq, Pakistan, and Yemen
2009 – War on Terror in Afghanistan, Iraq, Pakistan, and Yemen
2010 – War on Terror in Afghanistan, Iraq, Pakistan, and Yemen
2011 – War on Terror in Afghanistan, Iraq, Pakistan, Somalia, and Yemen; Conflict in Libya (Libyan Civil War)
2012 – War on Terror in Afghanistan, Iraq, Somalia, Syria and Yemen
2013 – War on Terror in Afghanistan, Iraq, Somalia, Syria and Yemen
2014 – War on Terror in Afghanistan, Iraq, Somalia, Syria and Yemen; Civil War in Ukraine
2015 – War on Terror in Somalia, Somalia, Syria and Yemen; Civil War in Ukraine

In most of these wars, the U.S. was on the offense.

To put this in perspective:
* Pick any year since 1776 and there is about a 91% chance that America was involved in some war during that calendar year.
* The U.S. has never gone a decade without war.
* The only time the U.S. went five years without war (1935-40) was during the isolationist period of the Great Depression.

DaGoblin
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DaGoblin
50 posts
Nomad

I don't think war on piracy, war on terror or proxy cold war wars should fit here, not so sure about part of the "U.S. invades Mexico" either but we get the point. Wasn't it the same with the rest of the major countries though?

partydevil
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partydevil
5,129 posts
Jester

I don't think war on piracy, war on terror or proxy cold war wars should fit here
i have debated fanatic americans here about the cold war. in my own eyes it shouldn't be counted as a war on it's own. the occupations of countries should but not the cold war itself... while debating that, i was the only 1 having this opinion. so knowing that by far most americans see them as a war. i will not count down those years for this debate. i'll stay on their opinion this time that it are actually wars. for the sake of not re-doing the debate in opposite seats just because it fits the americans better. =)

Wasn't it the same with the rest of the major countries though?
only israel comes close to it. other nations have big war records aswell but they are also older countries.. the usa and israel are still young. (usa could be considered a teenager. =P ) the other nations had also long periods of peace that brings their % down. for the usa its still every 2,5 year in war is 1% more...
DaGoblin
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DaGoblin
50 posts
Nomad


only israel comes close to it

You mainly mentioned the colonial era. I'm pretty sure Britain, Spain, Italy, France, Belgium, the Netherlands, Russia, Germany, Japan (before losing ww2), Turkey (if the war with the Kurds count) and others will fill those years quite easily.
For the same reasons Israel was always at war you can say the same about Syria, Iraq, Lebanon and some others.
Hell, up to 1918 its actually hard to find any country not involved in one for a whole year. Western European countries could fill most of the window between the world wars with colonial wars, then with interventions in Korea, Afghanistan or Iraq. Come to think of it, I think Britain should have much better statistics then 91% with a bigger percentage of offensive wars too.


i have debated fanatic americans here about the cold war.

They simply have a different view of the term war then. For what its worth I think your one is better.
partydevil
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partydevil
5,129 posts
Jester

You mainly mentioned the colonial era.

i dont see old israel and new israel as the same country if that is what you aim at..

Britain, Spain, Italy, France, Belgium, the Netherlands, Russia, Germany, Japan (before losing ww2), Turkey (if the war with the Kurds count) and others will fill those years quite easily.
some more then others but not to that extent. only a few others that only exist for a few year now. (africa) i dont know how fair it is to call on them yet. almost all nations have come to existence by war anyway. =)

For the same reasons Israel was always at war you can say the same about Syria, Iraq, Lebanon and some others.
really? did they force themselves into a region where they started to make demands? and if the demands were not honored then force was used? i dont think any nations has a story like israel. because it is pretty absurd. most have a story about revolution and/or occupation.

I think Britain should have much better statistics then 91% with a bigger percentage of offensive wars too.
hard to say, since most colonial wars toke place in a few weeks/months instead of years.(most of the time was just sailing) they could be around that %. but only because they got united around 1700 aswell. but i think most people still see the UK as from the 1000th with William the conquer as 1st king. like how people still see russia and ussr as the same country. but if you like to calculate the %, here is a overview from wiki. =)
DaGoblin
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DaGoblin
50 posts
Nomad


i dont see old israel and new israel as the same country if that is what you aim at..

ofc not, i was talking about other countries.


some more then others but not to that extent. only a few others that only exist for a few year now

Lets take a look at France for example.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wars_involving_France#French_Colonial_Empire
There's a lot here I didn't even hear about, but I doubt there's a year not covered in one of these. The enormous colonial Empire they had to maintain and expand covers most of the years easily. After their colonial Era you can still find a lot of Interventions all around the world up to today's ones in Afghanistan and Africa.


really? did they force themselves into a region where they started to make demands? and if the demands were not honored then force was used? i dont think any nations has a story like israel

Make no mistake about their motives. They all had expansion in mind every war they made, it was hardly to "save" the Palestinians.
But before I continue, are you really suggesting their 3 major wars against was a natural acceptable move?
I guess until we are "driven to the sea" it will continue to be acceptable.
Ishtaron
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Ishtaron
359 posts
Blacksmith

I think we ought to stop discussing British and American crime statistics and wars in this thread...

Year-by-year Timeline of America’s Major Wars (1776-2015)

Well, either this thread is about to become very entertaining or HahiHa is going to lock it. While there's still time I might as well throw in my 2 cents. First, some things from the past couple pages I'd like to address.

3 No middle eastern nation in existence has ever supported terrorism. Terrorism does not boost the economy or pay of the national debt, it doesn't promote international trade, and it more or less guarantees political instability and poor quality of life for everyone.
5 There aren't enough fissionable materials in all of North America to destroy all of that.

Several Middle Eastern nations actively fund terrorist organizations. They do so either by purchasing weapons from these organizations like Pakistan has been doing with the billions of dollars the U.S. paid it every year for support, or by straight up donating to these organizations. In the Middle East extremism is the norm and these terrorist groups use that to gain support. Also, the U.S. alone has enough nuclear weaponry to kill every living thing on the planet. Russia has a similarly large nuclear arsenal. And thorium is plentiful enough to produce enough fissionable materials to glass a continent if someone was willing to put that much effort into it.

That said, nobody wants a war. Were all people with families here, most of us have friends who got injured or died in Gaza. Why would anybody who has family and friends want to get called to a war?

Pretty much all cultures glorify the people who will risk their lives to protect others and this extends to warriors. There's also a desire to protect others and a sense of camaraderie that comes into play. The latter are probably most noticeable when someone is dealing with survivor's guilt. Actually experiencing war tends to quickly remove the idea of glory some people are expecting, but those who fight to protect others take it better. This is something that was depicted fairly well in the movie American Sniper if you want a point of reference.

The Israeli government has also underwritten a significant number of illegal assassinations on foreign soil. So, you know, swings and roundabouts.

Is there a single nation in history that hasn't used assassinations to hurt their opponents? Hitler survived several assassination attempts that were made by the allied nations, are you going to argue that those attempts shouldn't have been made because they were illegal?

But going to war to repair your mistakes (like supporting the wrong people) and ending up making things worse is hardly better.

You can't avoid fixing your mistakes just because you might screw up. I've already pointed out to 09philj that there was a valid reason to go to war with Iraq. But even if our only reason was to fix the mistake of supporting Hussein it was the right thing to do. Countries don't just appear out of nowhere or change overnight. The people of Iraq appreciated what we were trying to do and the act of trying may very well lead to a better future for the Iraqi people.

And justifying war with the fight against terrorism when war was a decisive factor in leading to this situation always seemed hypocritical to me.

War is not a decisive factor in leading to terrorism. The people who lead terrorists want power, same as any leader to uses zealotry and patriotism to make others fight. The people they recruit join because they believe that it's what their religion demands or because they think they can live better as a soldier for terrorists than as a working poor person. The only reason any of them care about Western influence in the area is because it decreases how much power the leaders can have. As long as the West has any influence on the Middle East there will be terrorists trying to chase us out. If they ever succeed, they'll still exist. Except instead of attacking Western countries they'll attack each other as they fight for power among themselves.

Based on intel from a dodgy dossier

Saddam wanted to be feared by the U.N. He thought it would get him more influence. An investigation may reveal things that Bush manipulated to push for war, but all the information the public, and the other nations of the U.N., had at the time supported going to war. It's easy to look back and say how things should have happened. But if you want to truly understand something it needs to be put in context.

they have not really been in war like that for a much to long time.. maybe it's time to let them remember how it is? (did this post just add my name to their blacklist? xD lol)

Actually, I somewhat agree. After WWII the people of the U.S. started to forget what war is really like. It became less about doing what's necessary or right and instead became about fighting evil. Then around the 60s, it became a matter of convenience. If a war wasn't over in a couple of years people wanted nothing to do with it. We fought in Vietnam to protect people from an invading force, and for every 1 U.S. soldier to die more than 20 North Vietnamese soldiers died. But it was a battle of attrition because we couldn't invade and people got tired of it. Nobody cared about what the soldiers were experiencing or what would happen to the South Vietnamese if they lost. It was all about what's convenient for us.

i have debated fanatic americans here about the cold war. in my own eyes it shouldn't be counted as a war on it's own.

I don't know what fanatic Americans you've been talking to, but the Cold War was a war in name only. Yeah, the constant tension had a similar psychological effect on some people as actual warfare (and according to some studies will have a major impact on the mental health of generations to come) but there wasn't any real fighting. I'm also not sure the Banana Wars should be up there either. They involved a lot of occupation with very limited aggression on either side, and were more about posturing to maintain economic health when dealing with unstable governments than actually fighting an enemy.

And you included the Posey War? If that's up there then where are the Hatfields and McCoys? Or the War on Drugs. The Posey War was a large racist posse chasing down a bunch of Native Americans because their leader was accused of a crime. I don't think it even lasted a month.

other nations have big war records aswell but they are also older countries..

From 1700 to 2015 the UK has had one "extended" period of peace. That's from the Adwan Rebellion (1923) to The Great Arab Revolt in Palestine (1936-1939). Yes, there were a few times very early in Britain's existence as a nation where it would go several decades without war, thus lowering its %. But it also tended to have 4 or more wars going on at one time when it wasn't at peace. Or as you would put it...

if you count multiple wars in 1 year as multiple years, then you even end up with more year in war then year existing

So none of that is really something unique to the U.S.

Back to being somewhat on topic, I support Israel's existence. I don't think they should try expanding, but the constant state of war over there is hardly their fault. Those same nations were constantly at war with each other and are still constantly at war with India anyways. It's an area of the world where extremism reigns supreme and has for over a thousand years. There is no path to peace in the near future. In fact, as long as there are people who don't adhere to the extremes they do there's no path to anything other than war for a very long time. Because that is one of the things that makes extremism so extreme, it refuses to tolerate other ideologies.

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