So, there have been scare reports in the Economist that the Euro might crash in a few weeks if a grand action plan ( unlimited liquidity for longer durations by the ECB), or if all euro-zone debt above 60% of each country's GDP is mutualised, setting aside a tranche of tax revenue to pay it off over the next 25 years (Germany's Council of Economic Experts' plan).
Is it worth it to save the Euro if even Spain and Italy are drowning in this muddy quagmire? And even if the deal works out, it most probably entails political pressure to change from Germany, which could infuriate people.
Greece has been living beyond its means since even before it joined the euro, and its rising level of debt has placed a huge strain on the country's economy.
The Greek government borrowed heavily and went on something of a spending spree after it adopted the euro.
So, when Greece was finally allowed to join the group of the financiallly powerful countries, it started building up national debt, fueling the economy with fake money, that eventually caused it to collapse. Isn't that what the US and the other rich countries have been doing since 1980?
If that was sarcasm then the answer would still be yes. Germany or France or Britain shouldn't be entirely responsible for bailing out such nations without strings attached or anything in return.
Maybe out of the kindness of their heart...? Nah, I'm just kidding. I don't think that we should bail Greece out, and no I'm not being sarcastic, I actually do understand. What I don't understand is what Britain and Germany can't agree on...
From Greece's side it was stupid to suffer and even lie to join the flawed debt economic system, but the rich countries are still responsible for creating the system in the first place.
From Greece's side it was stupid to suffer and even lie to join the flawed debt economic system, but the rich countries are still responsible for creating the system in the first place.
Doesn't mean to say that we should worsen our debt by bailing them out. Plus it's the banks' fault for giving dumb loans out to people who couldn't afford to pay them back. And the governments' for standing by them. Now the whole planet's ****ed and it's probably mostly UK and US fault.
Greece furthermore lied to get into the Euro System, hence it IS its fault.
Greece didn't exactly "lie". The Greek government and Goldman Sachs did a "swap". They pulled off a lucrative cross-currency swap in which some $10 billion in Greek debt, issued in dollars and yen to international investors, was swapped for Euro debt using a historical (and very favorable) exchange rate. Back then swaps weren't really "illegal". But nowadays swaps are -kinda- not allowed.
Anyways, don't focus a lot on the deficit-below 3pc. Almost all the countries did a lot of "tricks" to make it look like they were below the 3pc. Nonetheless all the countries were around 3pc (more-or-less). And, frankly there is not much of a difference between 2.8 and say 3.3 pc.
germany,finland,franch,the netherlands and norway.
Norway is not a member of the Eurozone. Norway is not even in the European Union.
Frankly Britain should be trying to fix their own economy, before bailing out other countries. Because now the UK is a disaster about to happen.
Frankly Britain should be trying to fix their own economy, before bailing out other countries. Because now the UK is a disaster about to happen.
We're already in a crisis. I don't think it could get much worse than this: we're already up to our eyeballs in debt inflation is increasing the value of the pound sterling is decreasing and on top of that we're trying to use our money to bail other countries out of debt; the British government is stupid and too kind for its own **** good...
Therefore they should bail the rest of us out; better one country's in debt than the rest of the EU
Imagine this. Your friends are all in massive debt due to gambling and you're the only one with some money left. Are you going to constantly keep bailing them out?
Imagine this. Your friends are all in massive debt due to gambling and you're the only one with some money left. Are you going to constantly keep bailing them out?
Considering that you have been gambling much more and for much longer than them and if you didn't lose all your money it's just because you had more to start with, that you're going lose all your money soon, especially if you let them fail, and that you're the one who created the gambling house, bailing them could actually be a good idea.
Imagine this. Your friends are all in massive debt due to gambling and you're the only one with some money left. Are you going to constantly keep bailing them out?
Yes, because that's what friends are for; better one of the crew be in heavy debt than only one not be; that would stop the entire planet going down the toilet. Then it'd just be Germany. The rest of us could recover and then bail them out; it is a near flawless plan. Obviously, that's never going to happen, but it should, else everything else ends up in a state of a neverending spiral of infinitely climbing debt that is becoming harder and harder to get out of until you reach the point of no return. Then the entire EU is in debt forever unless US bail them out, which it can't because it is itself in debt... See how Germany should sacrifice the health of their economy for the sake of the rest of the EU? Or we could all just give up on economies and politics and revert back to caveman lifestyle; grow our own food and manufacture our own products; but that would cost more labour money because the minimum wage in the UK is more than in Vietnam. But what about importation costs I hear you cry? Well, I don't know... I'm not an economist... But what I do know (sort of) is that if Germany bail the rest of us out the EU can recover and then bail Germany. A fail-safe plan? I think so...
Considering that you have been gambling much more and for much longer than them and if you didn't lose all your money it's just because you had more to start with, that you're going lose all your money soon, especially if you let them fail, and that you're the one who created the gambling house, bailing them could actually be a good idea.
It seems that gaboloth uses the analogy to agree with me. Not intentionally, but he thinks that Germany should bail the rest of the EU out anyway...
Considering that you have been gambling much more and for much longer than them and if you didn't lose all your money it's just because you had more to start with, that you're going lose all your money soon, especially if you let them fail, and that you're the one who created the gambling house, bailing them could actually be a good idea.
Like I mention in the first post, the Germans are planning to do so, but the fact is Greece opted to join the Euro (I.e The Gambling House) by it's own choice, and Germany should not be punished by it. Furthermore, give me an example that this the Germans took part in this ''gambling house'' or even intended it as a ''gambling house''.
Or we could all just give up on economies and politics and revert back to caveman lifestyle; grow our own food and manufacture our own products; but that would cost more labour money because the minimum wage in the UK is more than in Vietnam. But what about importation costs I hear you cry? Well, I don't know... I'm not an economist... But what I do know (sort of) is that if Germany bail the rest of us out the EU can recover and then bail Germany. A fail-safe plan? I think so...
The Euro stinks anyway. It is falling apart. It worked well in a time of financial stability to help with importation costs, but now in a time of economic crisis, it isn't holding its weight. Therefore I think that the countries should revert back to their original currencies and the EU should dissolve itself. Then the pound can become stronger and the Euro currencies would change. The instability of the Euro would go away and then the EU countries could start over and have a shred of hope of clawing their way out of their debt by themselves rather than having to rely on other countries to bail them out when they may never well do because they are in debt themselves...
