You know I really believe that if the government told members of our military to just detain random citizens without charge, would they really do it? I'm fairly certain that a lot of soldiers wouldn't just start randomly detaining American citizens just because the government said so. What happens when the military tells a group of soldiers to just start detaining everyone for no reason and the soldiers say No? I would hope to have at least that much faith in the morality of our military.
I doubt it is really going to be as bad as the OP's article makes it seem or at least I hope not
You know I really believe that if the government told members of our military to just detain random citizens without charge, would they really do it? I'm fairly certain that a lot of soldiers wouldn't just start randomly detaining American citizens just because the government said so. What happens when the military tells a group of soldiers to just start detaining everyone for no reason and the soldiers say No? I would hope to have at least that much faith in the morality of our military.
Well, what if they get shot or punished if they don't? Alternatively, propaganda is an effective tool.
That being said, people are blowing this out of proportion.
The white house is actually threatening to veto this now. But what I mean is that if you start detaining eventually people are going to get tired of it...and you it all goes downhill from there. I'm sure that everyone would take orders for a while but eventually... Then again I could be wrong
But what I mean is that if you start detaining eventually people are going to get tired of it...and you it all goes downhill from there. I'm sure that everyone would take orders for a while but eventually...
In a war, everyone loses their heads. The Americans massacred innocent Vietnamese soldiers, the Germans shot the Jews on the field, the Soviets were prone to shooting thousands of their own deserters.
And even if it isn't during a war, do you think the average grunt will sabotage his own tiny paycheck and not follow orders?
After years of struggling with issues of who should investigate, detain and try suspected terrorists -- civilian authorities and courts or the military and its tribunal system
Detaining Americans SUSPECTED of terrorist charges. They can't randomly go on the street and arrest people, there has to have evidence.
guess that means I need to start putting on the blue overalls for Big Brother and the Party. anybody up for some victory gin (1984 reference)
that being said, we are now one step closer to the dystopia that is described in that book. hope you like celibacy, cuz they're gonna start hardwiring the "dangers" of sex into our kids. very soon the thought police will take you in the middle of the night and make you confess to crimes you never commited.
that being said, we are now one step closer to the dystopia that is described in that book. hope you like celibacy, cuz they're gonna start hardwiring the "dangers" of sex into our kids. very soon the thought police will take you in the middle of the night and make you confess to crimes you never commited.
-Sigh-. Do people honestly think these days before lumping everything they have just read in a single book into one gigantic ''truth''?
Tell me. How will detaining suspected terrorists indefinitely even remotely links to celibacy. Or how does it link to sadistic torture just for the sake of squeezing out fake crimes from your lips?
I've read the book, it was fantastic and all, but we are a long long way from that remote possibility.
Tell me. How will detaining suspected terrorists indefinitely even remotely links to celibacy. Or how does it link to sadistic torture just for the sake of squeezing out fake crimes from your lips?
the celibacy part I was going overboard, but the rest is not as far off as we think. since such a bill is passed, this is basicly saying "if we got away with passing this one, why cant we get away with passing something that will give us even more control?"
all it takes is just one shot of fear, one power hungry member of congress, and a few shady deals, and we could be going down that path really easily.
all it takes is just one shot of fear, one power hungry member of congress, and a few shady deals, and we could be going down that path really easily.
One power hungry member of Congress can't do jack squat if the government is against him. Let us not forget that the military and civilian wings of the government are kept cleanly apart, ruling out a military coup.
"if we got away with passing this one, why cant we get away with passing something that will give us even more control?"
The public, and the rest of the government that aren't as crooked. There are decent people in there.
One power hungry member of Congress can't do jack squat if the government is against him. Let us not forget that the military and civilian wings of the government are kept cleanly apart, ruling out a military coup.
thats what the shot of fear is for. it will rally the civilians under the banner, as long as the goverment can find a way to convince people that it's the best option. I'm also confident it will work because even though an individual is smart, a group of people can easily be rash, erratic, and prone rally under something that claims to be doing something for the right reasons.
a military coup isn't what you need to worry about. you need to worry about the master holding the dog's leash. whoever becomes president has pretty much the final say in whatever the military does. if that leader is the ambitious congressman, then thats another nail on the coffin.
The public, and the rest of the government that aren't as crooked. There are decent people in there.
yes, the public is decent, but they are also sheep. only those who are well informed will see this before it happens. unfortunately for us, the vast majority people are either uninformed, or misinformed about politics, and will go behind anybody with enough bells and whistles going off.
I know this is very situational, and my views very cynical, but like I said earlier, there is a chance of this happening.
thats what the shot of fear is for. it will rally the civilians under the banner, as long as the goverment can find a way to convince people that it's the best option. I'm also confident it will work because even though an individual is smart, a group of people can easily be rash, erratic, and prone rally under something that claims to be doing something for the right reasons.
McCartey, McArthur all tried that in the Cold War. 9/11 had that shot of fear, the Cold War had it for the entire second half of the 20th Century, but a dictatorship never arose.
I'm also confident it will work because even though an individual is smart, a group of people can easily be rash, erratic, and prone rally under something that claims to be doing something for the right reasons.
The public might rally under a madman, but the final say still comes from the government and President.
whoever becomes president has pretty much the final say in whatever the military does.
Nope. Congress has the right to give and approve funds for military spending, not the President. Furthermore, it is Congress and Congress only that has the ability to declare war, not the President.
yes, the public is decent, but they are also sheep. only those who are well informed will see this before it happens. unfortunately for us, the vast majority people are either uninformed, or misinformed about politics, and will go behind anybody with enough bells and whistles going off.
I was actually talking about the people in government. There are enough cool heads in there and enough checks and balances to prevent this.
I was actually talking about the people in government. There are enough cool heads in there and enough checks and balances to prevent this.
fair enough, but unlike you, I have less faith in the goverment. they are so polarized that if the republicans say that shouldn't happen, the democrats will be in favor of "1984-ification" just because the republicans oppose it. because of this, there actually is a shot of something like that happening.
sure you can believe human nature is better than that, but you and I both know how humans are petty, and reckless creatures. we have gone to war with ourselves multiple times, some of them for really stupid reasons. don't tell me that total polarization won't happen. there may be cool heads, but there are also firebrands like those fools in the tea party.
