ForumsThe TavernMath Thread

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daleks
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daleks
3,766 posts
Chamberlain

This thread is just what the title says it is. It is all about Math. You can post math jokes(the jokes don't have to be good), math questions, what you like about Math, or even why you hate Math.

My math joke: Resistance is not futile. It is voltage divided by amps.

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acmed
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acmed
3,517 posts
Nomad

You guys think we can find an answer for a number/0?

I would think it to be infinite, but it's not.

Superior101
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Superior101
74 posts
Peasant

what grades are you guys in? cause im in 7th, and im doin Algebra

acmed
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acmed
3,517 posts
Nomad

cause im in 7th, and im doin Algebra


I'm sorry, 7th?

Off topic, but if you're under 13, you can't be on the site.
master565
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master565
4,104 posts
Nomad

Off topic, but if you're under 13, you can't be on the site.


People turn 13 in 7th grade.
johnmerz
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johnmerz
536 posts
Shepherd

Hey, the math thread is dieing a bit! *bumps it* So what shall we talk about now? How about sine, cosine, and tangent?

master565
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master565
4,104 posts
Nomad

How about sine, cosine, and tangent?


Heh, that reminds me of something that happened today. During a math competition test i was taking today, they had a problem involving tangent. There was a certain property of tangents i forgot, so i didn't know how to solve the problem, logically that is. During the test i wrote a program on my calculator for the sole purpose of solving one problem with brute force.
johnmerz
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johnmerz
536 posts
Shepherd

lol That's cool. So did it have enough time and power to solve it in that way?

master565
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master565
4,104 posts
Nomad

So did it have enough time and power to solve it in that way?


There were only 30 possible answers, so yep.
daleks
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daleks
3,766 posts
Chamberlain

I have a new method of answering multiple choice questions that I cannot decide between 2 answers. I seed my calculator to the number of the problem and use the random number generator.

daleks
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daleks
3,766 posts
Chamberlain

How about sine, cosine, and tangent?

On another note I think I have the unit circle coming up next semester. I learned it last year but I forgot it. I know that there is a square root of 3 over 2 somewhere.
aknerd
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aknerd
1,416 posts
Peasant

Sine huh? People often associate the trig functions with pi, because, well, they are trig functions. But, the functions themselves have a lot to do with e (e being that interesting constant that shows up everywhere).

I mean, what is Sine? how do we actually compute it? On a right triangle, sure, there is a pretty simple geometric explanation. But what is the sine of, say, pi*i? What is the geometric interpretation of that?

Well, as it turns out, we can actually define sine in two very useful ways:
1) sin(z) = [e^(i*z) - e^(-i*z)]/(2*i)
This looks kind of wonky, but its actually a relatively simple equation. And it works for all numbers, be it imaginary, complex, or purely real.

Sin(pi/2)?
[e^(i*pi/2)-e^(-i*pi/2)]/(2*i) = i-(-i)/2i = 2i/2i = 1.

Yeah. It actually works. Weird, huh?

2) sin(z) = z - (z^3)/3! + (z^5)/5! - (z^7)7! .....

This is the Taylor series expansion for sine. Its an infinite polynomial, so you can't actually write the whole thing down or use it to explicitly compute anything. You can, however, use it to prove some pretty advanced things.

Some cool you can immediately do with it, however, is create a finite polynomial that approximates the sine function to whatever degree of accuracy you like (that's basically what a Taylor series is used for).

Here it is carried out to 5 terms:
http://www4c.wolframalpha.com/Calculate/MSP/MSP254919iba592ai31e708000061g9ed6434aa4h69?MSPStoreType=image/gif&s=8&w=299&h=126&cdf=RangeControl
And here it is with 10.

aknerd
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aknerd
1,416 posts
Peasant

Hmmm... Well, maybe some sort of challenge will kickstart things a little.

So, here is my MATH CHALLENGE:

Order the sets from the smallest size to the largest size (some may be equal):

{the set of all real numbers}
{a,b}
{the set of all natural numbers}
{the set of all positive integer factors of any given prime number}
{1,2,100}
{the set of all integers}
{the set of all rational numbers}
{all of the real numbers greater than 0 and less than 1}
{}

Okay, go for it!

And for those that care, the size of a set is determined by the number of elements in the set, not the size of the elements. So, the size of {1,2} is equal to {200,10000}, but less than {a,b,c}. Sets can be infinitely large, or contain nothing, or be anything in between (and maybe some other things as well)!

Gantic
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Gantic
11,891 posts
King

Because no one else is answering this, I'm not sure this is correct, but it seems like it probably is.

{}
{a,b}
{1,2,100}
{the set of all positive integer factors of any given prime number}, {the set of all natural numbers}, {the set of all rational numbers}, {the set of all integers}
{all of the real numbers greater than 0 and less than 1}, {the set of all real numbers}

aknerd
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aknerd
1,416 posts
Peasant

Very close. The wording in {the set of all positive integer factors of any given prime number} is supposed to be tricky. You have to remember that the prime number is given. This is different from saying {the set of all positive integer factors of all prime numbers} which would of course be the union of the set of all prime numbers and {1}.

{the set of all positive integer factors of any given prime number} is actually just a set of size 2, since it contains only the given prime number and 1. In other words, if our prime number is given as p, then our set is {1,p}, and has a size equal to that of {a,b}.

What if I were to add the {the set of all subsets of the set of all natural numbers} to the list? What about {the set of all subsets of the set of real numbers}?

zakyman
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zakyman
1,627 posts
Peasant

Jeez, and I thought the stuff my math test is on was hard...

Seriously, you guys nearly made me puke with those problems. I'm doing something much more (relatively) simple like dividing polynomials. And that gave me a headache. Seriously though, what grade did you learn this in?

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