ForumsWEPRDo Grades Prohibit Real Learning?

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CabzIndustries
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CabzIndustries
35 posts
Nomad

I have recently read an article stating that grades make students only focus on homework and cramming before tests and they don't really absorb the material. to be honest i can agree, as a student i feel that i forget all my information of the years because i only focused on cramming for the test. Do you think that this is true? and what would be a new system to test the intelligence of the modern day student?

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Somewhat49
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Somewhat49
1,607 posts
Nomad

2) Grades/Test results have been severely perverted by the school system to the point where learning is secondary to getting the grade. So long as you can pass the test, you're "good" and that's all that matters.


Agreed, I seriously didn't even learn half the time I was in math class because instead of actualy telling us WHY we are doing this and WHY the method works, they just tell us the shortcuts and make us memorize it (luckily I no longer have that, but I was pretty much screwed when it came to math because I was only learning shortcuts, now I actualy have a teacher that lets us discover the shortcuts for ourselves and then lets us use it)
School should be about learning, but it's not. School is about putting up with all the bull**** and proving that you can do what you're told, when you're told.

Yea, the military should be the one doing that.
Yup. As long as you do what is asked, (which should be simple at that grade level) you will always pass. Often with B's or even A's.

I remember my science teacher ued to always tell my class that it wasn't the fact that we were smart that we got into the specialized class, it was just because we were good students.
Somewhat49
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Somewhat49
1,607 posts
Nomad

You should tell my mom about that. I dont think she got the memo.
We should all get stars or something non threatening. Grades are really stressful sometimess.

Nah, I used to really hate stars, probably because at the time when I was gettin stars my teachers were all having extream favoratisms.
Not only that, but isnt McDonalds the place where uneducated poor people eat?

I think that that is generalizing it way too much, I have eating there when I was little, but yes I don't anymore.
Somewhat49
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Somewhat49
1,607 posts
Nomad

As you progress up the education bar, getting an A is harder. It was 90% when I was in Primary (Elementary) School, 80% when I was in Secondary (What's the equivalent?), and now it's 70% (I'm 17 now).
I actualy found that getting an A got easier and easier the older I got (not in collage yet) Like when I was in PS everything was "WHY DID I HAVE TO COME HERE!" (PS actualy made me hate coloring, no joke) The in IS or secondary it was "oh, now that I know what they are expectin of me I can do this" then is highschool it's "wow, this is exactly what I learned last year, plus I now don't have focus problems!"
AnaLoGMunKy
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AnaLoGMunKy
1,574 posts
Blacksmith

[quote] Not only that, but isnt McDonalds the place where uneducated poor people eat?


I think that that is generalizing it way too much, I have eating there when I was little, but yes I don't anymore.[/quote]

I guess I was sort of kidding, but then... sort of not either.
Sonatavarius
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Sonatavarius
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Farmer

My ideal system would have the student learn the material at their own pace, and then they elect to take the test whenever they felt confident in their knowledge of the material. It is a similar concept to taking belt tests in karate. You could either have certain tests offered periodically or just give a student a unique test whenever they request to take it. Mix and match test banks could let that happen. Due to money issues, time restraints, the number of people, and how the current way helps in ranking people, it makes my way inefficient and unrealistic.

btw... the word you're all looking for is "inhibit." Grades never told me that they wouldn't allow me to learn.

devsaupa
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devsaupa
1,810 posts
Nomad

My ideal system would have the student learn the material at their own pace, and then they elect to take the test whenever they felt confident in their knowledge of the material.


Looks good on paper, but that would eliminate vacation for some people because 1. you would have students that abuse the system and 2. If a certain student is a bit slow, he will not learn as fast as his peers so you would have some mid teens still with a junior high education.
Sonatavarius
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Sonatavarius
1,322 posts
Farmer

With the lack of caring in some students now, we have college aged people who can barely write. I say let the ones who want to fall through the cracks fall. If someone wants help, then you see what you can do. Your issue is that someone might feel bad if they're not on pace with the other kids their age. That sounds like a decent motivator for me... at least for the ones who actually want help. I'm a chemistry tutor for my college. I had someone come in last week asking me to teach him everything about gen chem during the two hour block I work. After spending 3 months in a gen chem class, he didn't even know how to read what's on a periodic table. Just because someone has gone through the motion of sitting in classes doesn't mean that they have that caliber of an education. I'd say that a large number of "high school" graduates nowadays still can't read or right.... so they don't have a "high school" education. We just give them the title, so they'll feel good about themselves.

devsaupa
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devsaupa
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Nomad

I say let the ones who want to fall through the cracks fall.


But then you have people that can't hold a job, or get a good one, and they go on welfare. And the crime rate will rise. The current system just hangs on to the hope that somewhere along the line, those that don't care will get some sort of motivation. Many people I go to school with are just waiting for their diploma and trying to scoot by. And these people end up dealing, going on welfare, or robbing to get by.
Sonatavarius
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Sonatavarius
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Farmer

There are all sorts of grunt work jobs out there in construction and other things. If you can't find a job, then you're not trying hard enough... or you just don't want to do what's there... It's similar to how people don't want the illegal Mexicans here in the US, but hardly anyone would want to fill their positions if they left. landscaping, trash removal, pest removal, circus acts, carnies... there are all sorts of things you can do with just or without a high school diploma. There are professional schools... mechanics... etc. High school isn't even that hard to begin with. Half the material has already been force fed to you your whole life. ...English for example. People just find stealing easier than actually having to work.

I don't care to cater to people just because they might do something bad. I'd rather open up more prisons and throw them in there... give someone else a job... and make the inmates do something productive... and if they don't.... then they don't eat. If they don't change their tune when they get out, then repeat the process.

AAAANNNDDD... I'd have that program that demands token minorities be present in certain ratios. That's just stupid. People should get what they earn and not get given something just for the color of their skin.

NiteStryker
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NiteStryker
144 posts
Nomad

cramming before tests

Many teachers stress that you study day by day, not learning a whole chapter of material within a day...In my opinion, grades can prohibit learning, but only if you, yourself, choose so.
AnaLoGMunKy
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AnaLoGMunKy
1,574 posts
Blacksmith

grades can prohibit learning, but only if you, yourself, choose so.


What works for some does not work for all. Perhaps some would work better and achieve more without the threat of a piece of paper that decides what they are entitled to hanging over their heads.
Sonatavarius
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Sonatavarius
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Farmer

Lets analyze the jobs we are entitled to that are in jeopardy bc of said paper... A lot of them are high stress jobs with severe consequences that come into play when you make mistakes. If a doctor messes up then someone could die and he'll most definitely get sued. If an engineer neglects to account for certain forces in his designs then they won't be of sound integrity and people could get hurt.... Then the law suits and such. If the stress from or fear of the possible repercussions of doing bad on a test make you do bad on it then how are you just going to miraculously going to get over that once you're out of school? You're more or less "graded" your entire life, except if you fail outside of school someone might die, you don't get paid, you get demoted, you get fired, and/or you starve to death. I fail to see how a test is more intimidating than any of that. Most jobs that you take a lot of tests to get to require that you be able to handle stress and deadlines. If you can't handle those then you might want to reevaluate which direction you're gonna take in life.

AnaLoGMunKy
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AnaLoGMunKy
1,574 posts
Blacksmith

I fail to see how a test is more intimidating than any of that.


Then you fail to see what most people stress about for about 25 years of their life for. Im glad tests dont stress you. If your told that this test will basically make or break the rest of your life then its a bit different from actually learning.
Sonatavarius
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Sonatavarius
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Farmer

I have a pchem test tomorrow at 12. It makes or breaks my life. If I fail it, then it is my fault. The date has been set since the beginning of the semester. Every step of the way in life there is something that could ruin everything you've ever done if failed. It's not like that goes away once the tests do. I will have my 3-5 red bulls + whatever type monster there is in the machine downstairs tonight and I will be stressed. If you study like you're supposed to and don't goof around playing video games or socializing, then tests become exponentially easier. People just want to procrastinate till the day before and then blame their performance on test anxiety... when they've put in 1-2 days of studying for a test they've known about for over a month. If they would actually study constantly without tests, then I don't think they'd just up and drop it completely just because they get tested periodically. They'd do it because they liked it... just like video games or socializing.

I know who the person is who really deserves the blame for my mistakes... and that person is myself. It isn't the test. There are some people that have test anxiety just like some people get overwhelmed with anxiety when they see spiders... but I think most of the people who say that are just trying to place the blame on someone else so they don't have to hold themselves accountable(as in their test anxiety/cake is a lie). A lot of the people I see irl freaking out at test time are the ones who are always in their rooms playing Duty, Skyrim, Gears, etc, out on the quad playing ultimate frisbee, or out all night partying/drinking. Those excuses are just an attempt at having your cake and eating it too. It's a method of getting yourself to believe that it's someone else's fault when you've squandered all your time killing dragons in skyrim.

I've gotten syllabi in all of my college classes, and they've all told me where and when my tests for the entire semester were going to be given. They also tell me what material is going to be on the test. I got some of those in high school too... if I didn't, then the teacher told us when the test was going to be and what was on it.

We seem to be under the assumption that being intelligent automatically entitles us to better jobs, status, etc... when it doesn't. Does it play a factor? Yes, yes it does. But, things like work ethic, dedication, and perseverance also play huge parts in that.

How much and how often you study for something dictates how much you learn. It's not the fact that there's some soul shatteringly difficult exam on the horizon that keeps you from knowing things permanently. It's studying at the last moment so that you memorize and flush it that does that... plus as a human you're going to forget things anyway. I had to take the ACT to get into college. Was I overwhelmed the first time I took it? Yes, I was nervous and scared of it because it dictated so much about my life... I used to think like you. I thought that it was these stupid make or break tests that were going to hold me back from what I wanted to do in life, and I did mediocre at best on the ACT the first time I took it... then I realized that it was my fault because of my lack of preparation... so what did I do? I studied my *** off for the next one. I worked problems out of an ACT prep book at home after I did homework. I worked problems in the cafeteria while eating lunch. I worked problems at PE after I had done all of my required exercises.... all the while maintaining my performance in my actual classes. The next time I took the test I scored high enough to get pretty much all of my college paid for by scholarships and academically earned grants. If you know the material well enough to debate a professor in light of a possible mistake on their part, then odds are they'll give you points back. It is your responsibility to make sure you learn something, not the teacher. "You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink."

Number 155 out of the 154 in my graduating class didn't graduate because he had to pass the senior level history class as part of Mississippi's state requirement for graduating. A dozen people in the class all told me the same thing. The teacher based the class off of participation. If you paid attention and talked during the discussions, then you got your credit... Ole derpus slept everyday because he just didn't want to be there. He'd rather be home playing WoW or Runescape, so he sped the day up by sleeping through it. The teacher didn't pass him. ZOMG no grades and someone still failed. There wasn't even a state test for that class! People don't study and/or don't do homework because they pursue other things they'd rather be doing. Are there students that don't get the study time they need b/c they have to work their way through high school? Yes...but even some of them do well. This system has been in place for how long? If billions of other people have found a way to make the system work now and in the past, then I'm sure you can too... if you can't, then, again,... rethink your life. We are responsible for our own education. You have to learn how to adapt to your situation. The situation shouldn't have to always adapt to you.

johnnyboy3636
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johnnyboy3636
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Nomad

I am a horrible at any second language class (I have to take french) and grades don't matter there but elsewhere grades are reluctantly something I care about.

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