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Forums → WEPR → Guns and Drugs- Same Debate?

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314d1
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314d1
3,817 posts
Nomad

One day I was examining the arguments for and against drugs and guns, and found them to be pretty much the same. Here are some examples of arguments :

-Disastrous effects if used improperly.
-Allowing legal sale reduces crime rate. (for separate reasons)

Etc etc. Just a small opening to leave room for conversation, what is the difference between the gun and drug debate?

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EnterOrion
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EnterOrion
4,220 posts
Nomad

An armed society is a polite society. A high society is a fun society.

I like polite fun, thus they clearly go together!

partydevil
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partydevil
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Jester

-Disastrous effects if used improperly.


agree whit the guns but whit drugs it depends on what drugs.
drugs from the drug store are not all bad, some of those you can happely eat/drink it as much you can.
also is it imposible to get a overdosis of marijuana (thc)

-Allowing legal sale reduces crime rate.

agree whit the drugs but whit guns it depends on the country. in switzerland people are having a gun but don't use it they are smart enoufg to not take it evrywhere. in the usa are people having a gun, but they can't take the responsablity of 1 and often take it to anywhere they go because "we have to protect ourself". what a BS, you guys are not man enoufg to fight whit fists?
guns are lame!


my conclusion from my own points of view tell me that i take a whole different side on a guns topic then a drugs topic.
wich is correct because i dislike guns alot. and like good drugs alot. (not the bad **** like heroine and crack. they should be semi-illegal)
314d1
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314d1
3,817 posts
Nomad

agree whit the drugs but whit guns it depends on the country. in switzerland people are having a gun but don't use it they are smart enoufg to not take it evrywhere. in the usa are people having a gun, but they can't take the responsablity of 1 and often take it to anywhere they go because "we have to protect ourself". what a BS, you guys are not man enoufg to fight whit fists?


Wait, who carries their gun everywhere in America? I know plenty of people who have a rifle in their car, but that is mostly since hunting season wasn't that long ago...

And if someone breaks into your house, are you about to grab your gun or put your dukes up?

my conclusion from my own points of view tell me that i take a whole different side on a guns topic then a drugs topic.
wich is correct because i dislike guns alot. and like good drugs alot. (not the bad **** like heroine and crack. they should be semi-illegal)



So basically you are saying that you like drugs and don't like guns, so you have a different opinion about them? Why?

And the "semi-illegal" thing brings back to the guns. If you think that minor drugs should be aloud (Marijuana, drug store drugs) and not hard drugs (Heroine and Crack), why not easily compare them to allowing reasonable guns (Decent caliber rifles bolt action, pistols) but not overkill guns (Just making them "Semi-illegal" as you put it?)(Explosive weapons, Gatling guns)? I can see those being comparable.
partydevil
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partydevil
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Jester

And if someone breaks into your house, are you about to grab your gun or put your dukes up?


guns are illegal in my country. and the alarm will go off way befor they are next to me =) but if so then i got this katana hanging on the wall.

So basically you are saying that you like drugs and don't like guns, so you have a different opinion about them? Why?


because guns are not drugs and drugs are not guns.

And the "semi-illegal" thing brings back to the guns. If you think that minor drugs should be aloud (Marijuana, drug store drugs) and not hard drugs (Heroine and Crack), why not easily compare them to allowing reasonable guns (Decent caliber rifles bolt action, pistols) but not overkill guns (Just making them "Semi-illegal" as you put it?)(Explosive weapons, Gatling guns)? I can see those being comparable.


1st of do all guns kill. (thats why it doesn't mater whit guns.)
2nd do NOT all drugs kill. (thats why it does mater whit drugs.)
thats why it's not comparable for me.
they simply are not the same.

3rd was the semi-illegal not ment for the drugs i was talking befor but only about the heroin, crack etc.
i believe that those drugs should always stay illegal.
but when the person is addicted to it and starts doing crimes to get money for the drugs. then those people should get free heroin and crack from the government. wich will be alot cheaper then simply puting them in jail. and when you give it away by the government then you can tell them they are not alowed to leave the 1st 2 hours after taking or something.

this way no1 will get problems whit these drugs addicts. not by crimes and also not publicly in sight when used. + it's cheaper.
win - win - win.
partydevil
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partydevil
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Jester

in this conversation you make me think of some1 that is serious about the lyrics of this song.

314d1
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314d1
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Nomad

guns are illegal in my country. and the alarm will go off way befor they are next to me =) but if so then i got this katana hanging on the wall.


So really. Your idea of protecting yourself is to either "Wait until help comes while a burglar has free reign of my house, if the alarm goes off" or "Take down the violent man using only a sword that I have no training to use"? Attacking him with a close range weapon is probably one of the worse things you could do in that situation.

1st of do all guns kill. (thats why it doesn't mater whit guns.)


What about their recreational purposes? Hunting or just target shooting? Or the protection they offer? Even if you never use it, or never intend to use it, it can offer you a sense of protection that is founded in reality.

2nd do NOT all drugs kill. (thats why it does mater whit drugs.)


I am talking about recreational drugs. Alcohol (A huge killer, especially when you add cars), tobacco, marijuana, even crack and heroine. Most of those things kill, either someone else or you.

thats why it's not comparable for me.
they simply are not the same.


Because one kills and most of the other kills?

3rd was the semi-illegal not ment for the drugs i was talking befor but only about the heroin, crack etc.
i believe that those drugs should always stay illegal.


What about for medical purposes? Morphine is really good as a painkiller, should it be aloud there?

but when the person is addicted to it and starts doing crimes to get money for the drugs. then those people should get free heroin and crack from the government. wich will be alot cheaper then simply puting them in jail. and when you give it away by the government then you can tell them they are not alowed to leave the 1st 2 hours after taking or something.


How would that be cheaper, or help them get off? Or how is it relevant to this conversation?

this way no1 will get problems whit these drugs addicts. not by crimes and also not publicly in sight when used. + it's cheaper.
win - win - win.


Still irrelevant to the conversation.
EnterOrion
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EnterOrion
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Nomad

who carries their gun everywhere in America


I know six people who do... Ranging from a .38 to a .45. Epic win they are.

all guns kill


Really? I got shot in the *** the other day by a BB gun. I'm fine.

but if so then i got this katana hanging on the wall.


Yes, because a katana is significantly easier to use and far more lethal than a 12 gauge. Come on, think.

you guys are not man enoufg to fight whit fists?


No, I'm not man enough to try and attack a guy who has a gun pointed at me with my fists. I would lose, every single time. I'm of average western build, and fighting with fists against guns is not my forte.

As for drugs: Why shouldn't all drugs be illegal? If people want to kill themselves, let them. It's not your life, why should you care?
partydevil
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partydevil
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Jester

So really. Your idea of protecting yourself is to either "Wait until help comes while a burglar has free reign of my house, if the alarm goes off" or "Take down the violent man using only a sword that I have no training to use"? Attacking him with a close range weapon is probably one of the worse things you could do in that situation.


i don't have to be scared in the 1st place.
why are you so scared in your own house?
anyway your option to simply shoot him on sight aint much beter.

What about their recreational purposes?


hunting:
illegal, only when the government has given the guns and told you to kill this or that animel in whatever area.

target shooting:
illegal, only if you need a gun for work.
to bad for those that like it. in 50 years no1 will remember it.
(it wont be the 1st one that starts killing whit it's competition gun.)

I am talking about recreational drugs

i can't know you already have a exact type of drugs in mind. i'm talking about drugs in general. that 1 does kill and the other not.
marijuana
has never killed a single human.

What about for medical purposes


heroin and crack are not for medical purposes.
read back to where i mentioned "the bad drugs"
if drugs can help you stay alive rather then die. then whats the big deal?

How would that be cheaper, or help them get off?

a shot of heroin costs about 5 euro. locking some1 up for 1 day is 18 euro. don't ask me where the numbers come from it was in the numbers presented by a political party.

and it wont help them get off. thats also not the point.
not all addicts want to get off or even can get off.
those people are only causing problems to society because all their money went in the drugs and now they have to do crimes to get the money for drugs.

Because one kills and most of the other kills?


and it's for me importend to not put the non killing drugs on the same level als the killing drugs and guns.

you can't count all drugs as drugs.
people should stop using the word drugs for medicine. so drug store becomes medicine store. then we can speak about drugs whit only the bad killing drugs (+thc) and the good helping drugs (medicine)
i'm just happy that we have done that in the netherlands so it's easyer for us to understand what drugs we are talking about.

so my dutch logic in drugs doesn't work in english and especialy not whit americans because you simply do not know what i mean and don't understand the logic behind it.
it feels like i have to educate people about drugs evrytime i'm getting myself in 1 of those conversations.
well i don't longer care you got my opinion 3 times now. let's move on whit the topic and the so called simular .......

Still irrelevant to the conversation.


you misinterpetated my semi-illegal sentence. i was just explaining what i ment whit that.
that you still don't understand is not my problem.
314d1
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314d1
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Nomad

i don't have to be scared in the 1st place.
why are you so scared in your own house?


There could be plenty of reasons. Maybe it isn't you, maybe it is your wife or kid who is scared. Or there is the whole "Someone breaks into your house" thing mister "I have a katana".

anyway your option to simply shoot him on sight aint much beter.


Did I ever suggest to shoot him? That may be an option if the invader has a gun, but if that is the case they where probably doing something worse than robbing you anyway (Just guessing). With a gun, you just point it at them and you can easily get rid of them, without shedding either of your blood. As apposed to your katana, which will probably just make him laugh, while you attempt to fight him one of you would get hurt, guaranteed. It turns out most people give up when you have a shotgun pointed at them.

hunting:
illegal, only when the government has given the guns and told you to kill this or that animel in whatever area.


Was that your law or your opinion on what it should be? Here it is legal, you need a permit, a license, etc.

target shooting:
illegal, only if you need a gun for work.
to bad for those that like it. in 50 years no1 will remember it.
(it wont be the 1st one that starts killing whit it's competition gun.)


Why? Is this your law or a suggestion for your law? Why should just shooting at a target or clay pigeon be illegal?

i can't know you already have a exact type of drugs in mind. i'm talking about drugs in general. that 1 does kill and the other not.


You can't be thinking of Pepto Bismol when someone says "Drugs", or Tylenol or really any drug store drugs. I am referring to recreational drugs, as most people are when they are referring to "legalizing drugs".

has never killed a single human.


I know. But all the others have. That is like saying "Well Daisies have never killed a human, thus guns are better then drugs!"

heroin and crack are not for medical purposes.
read back to where i mentioned "the bad drugs"
if drugs can help you stay alive rather then die. then whats the big deal?


So is morphine, a drug that is really bad if taken for fun (I think. Haven't researched that in a while) good or bad?

a shot of heroin costs about 5 euro. locking some1 up for 1 day is 18 euro. don't ask me where the numbers come from it was in the numbers presented by a political party.


And building a building to hold them in that is not a prison that they can be in while they shoot up is just as much as building an actual prison, or just using existing prisons, just substituting the drug for food prices.

and it wont help them get off. thats also not the point.
not all addicts want to get off or even can get off.


So you are saying they should just be able to take free drugs, illegally, without any repercussions? Not even being made to stop?
You should at least attempt to find them help...

those people are only causing problems to society because all their money went in the drugs and now they have to do crimes to get the money for drugs.


And of course because while they are on drugs they go completely crazy, depending on the drug.... So why not just put them in a prison?

and it's for me importend to not put the non killing drugs on the same level als the killing drugs and guns.


And it is important for me not to put killing drugs and drugs on the same level as nonkilling drugs and guns. There are plenty of guns that don't kill, BB guns, air soft guns, paintball guns....If we are going with your moronic "ALL DRUGS ARE TO BE COUNTED!! EVEN PEPTOBISMAL AND TYLONOL" then we must include the nonlethal guns as well.

But this thread isn't to discuss the legality of medical drugs and toy guns, it is to discuss recreational drugs and killing guns.

you can't count all drugs as drugs.
people should stop using the word drugs for medicine. so drug store becomes medicine store. then we can speak about drugs whit only the bad killing drugs (+thc) and the good helping drugs (medicine)
i'm just happy that we have done that in the netherlands so it's easyer for us to understand what drugs we are talking about.


I am happy that here in America people have enough knowledge to realize that you are not talking about Tylenol when you are referring to "Legalizing drugs". That is a great thing.

so my dutch logic in drugs doesn't work in english and especialy not whit americans because you simply do not know what i mean and don't understand the logic behind it.


You seem to be the confused one, while you don't understand my American logic. Or words, or something like that.

well i don't longer care you got my opinion 3 times now. let's move on whit the topic and the so called simular .......


How are they not similar?

you misinterpetated my semi-illegal sentence. i was just explaining what i ment whit that.
that you still don't understand is not my problem.


You seem to be the confused one, what don't you get?
partydevil
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partydevil
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Jester

mister "I have a katana".


you know you sound like a kid now right.
their is nothing special about a katana anyway xD

Did I ever suggest to shoot him?

youve been setting all kinds of things up looking like i said it like that. now don't cry because i also do it once oke?

Was that your law or your opinion


opinion

is this your law or a suggestion for your law


suggestion.
the reason why i already have given in the other post.

That is like saying "Well Daisies have never killed a human, thus guns are better then drugs!"


wtf your logic went on vacation or something?
it's not even close to that. but thats what i mean whit you being undereducated in drugs. and i'm not going to be your teacher.

morphine, a drug that is really bad if taken for fun


not true.
only when taken to much as whit evry drug of that kind. or even something harmless like suger.

And building a building to hold them in that is not a prison


why build it? just take a empty building. there is enoufg empty whit this crisis going on.

not to put killing drugs and drugs on the same level

killing drugs and drugs?

pfff stupid english don't even have proper words for the different kinds of drugs around. no wonder non of you actualy understand the difference.

You seem to be the confused one, while you don't understand my American logic. Or words, or something like that.


cause there is no logic in putting guns and non killing drugs on the same level.
i know all the words so no problem there. that i can't write it doesn't mean i don't know it. i real life i usualy only talk in english whit people. (business not this drugs BS)

How are they not similar?

realy a 4th time?

You seem to be the confused one, what don't you get?

plz. read. if you don't read i have nothing to say.


anyway off topic:
religious people if you want to bash on him. i wont protect him anymore
314d1
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314d1
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Nomad

you know you sound like a kid now right.
their is nothing special about a katana anyway xD


Then why did you mention you have one?

youve been setting all kinds of things up looking like i said it like that. now don't cry because i also do it once oke?


Such as?

suggestion.
the reason why i already have given in the other post.


Why do you think that?

wtf your logic went on vacation or something?
it's not even close to that. but thats what i mean whit you being undereducated in drugs. and i'm not going to be your teacher.


Yes it is. A rifle kills someone, unless that rifle is pump action and fires small BBs. Drugs kill people, unless that drug is a store brand. We are not talking about BB guns and "drug store drugs". We are talking about recreational drugs and lethal firearms.

not true.
only when taken to much as whit evry drug of that kind. or even something harmless like suger.


I can't understand what you are trying to say here.

why build it? just take a empty building. there is enoufg empty whit this crisis going on.


So you want to take an empty building, put a bunch of drug addicts in there, give them shots of heroine or cocaine, and then tell them not to leave? And you can't see what is wrong with this?

Those drugs are not only horrible for you, but many would make you turn pretty much insane. An old house isn't going to keep them in, you would at least need to put some steel bars in the building first...

pfff stupid english don't even have proper words for the different kinds of drugs around. no wonder non of you actualy understand the difference.


I see why you keep murdering the English language, you seem to hate it.

Now listen. Do you understand the difference between my little sister's pink BB gun that shoots little pellets that are the equivalent to a bee sting and a hunting rifle? We are talking about the hunting rifle. Now do you understand the difference between harmless drug store drugs and alcohol and other related drugs? We are talking about the other related drugs. Do I make myself clear?

cause there is no logic in putting guns and non killing drugs on the same level.


We are not. Let me say it again.

We. Are. Putting. Recreational. Drugs. Against. Lethal. Weapons. Not "Non killing drugs" but drugs that can be lethal, either immediately or in the long run.

plz. read. if you don't read i have nothing to say.


I am reading. You seem to be misunderstanding.

How about again for clarity?

We are putting some of these drugs- the harmful ones not the safer ones like caffeine and marijuana- against lethal weapons. The link leads to a Wikipedia article about recreational drug use. Does that clear things up?
partydevil
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partydevil
5,129 posts
Jester

Then why did you mention you have one?


you wanted to know what i should do.
i do have 1 more ment like a joke because i'm not a scared puppy at home/ and i didn't saw it as a actual question xD

Such as?


------------ And the "semi-illegal" thing brings back to the guns. If you think that minor drugs should be aloud (Marijuana, drug store drugs) and not hard drugs (Heroine and Crack), why not easily compare them to allowing reasonable guns (Decent caliber rifles bolt action, pistols) but not overkill guns (Just making them "Semi-illegal" as you put it?)(Explosive weapons, Gatling guns)? I can see those being comparable.------------

this is where you misinterpetated my sentence and haven't been leting that lose.
it is not what i ment and if you use it like then then my words are all halway turned around.

Why do you think that?


i don't think it. i know it. a kid that shot 24 people in a town in the netherlands befor the summer used it on 3 people befor taking out his semi-auto guns.

i know **** like that happens like evry month in the usa but it's realy rare in the netherlands. (wich strongens my point that legal guns + dumb people = bad)



-------------
the rest of your post i'm no longer intrested in and so i will stop this conversation here.
314d1
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314d1
3,817 posts
Nomad

------------ And the "semi-illegal" thing brings back to the guns. If you think that minor drugs should be aloud (Marijuana, drug store drugs) and not hard drugs (Heroine and Crack), why not easily compare them to allowing reasonable guns (Decent caliber rifles bolt action, pistols) but not overkill guns (Just making them "Semi-illegal" as you put it?)(Explosive weapons, Gatling guns)? I can see those being comparable.------------


For minor drugs, I don't mean harmless drugs. I mean legal drugs that are still harmful like alcohol or cigar, which can kill people but don't do it as quick or as effective as stronger drugs. It is more like comparing rifles to alcohol and pistol to tobacco. Then explosive weapons to heroine and Gatling guns to meth.

i don't think it. i know it. a kid that shot 24 people in a town in the netherlands befor the summer used it on 3 people befor taking out his semi-auto guns.


Cool story bro. Now give one or two of those kids shot a gun and they would be able to defend themselves.

How about this, in my small state alcohol related accidents cause hundreds of deaths a year. So how is that any different?

i know **** like that happens like evry month in the usa but it's realy rare in the netherlands. (wich strongens my point that legal guns + dumb people = bad)


When does that happen in the USA every month? And are you suggesting that people in the US are less intelligent?

the rest of your post i'm no longer intrested in and so i will stop this conversation here.


So you come here, yell random confused things in broken English, insult my country, then leave. Bye.
nichodemus
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nichodemus
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Grand Duke

-Disastrous effects if used improperly


The disastrous effect of drugs, say cocaine are effects on oneself. So if I overdose and my heart stops I harm myself. But if you mishandle a gun, or a criminal gets hold of a gun, it's very easy to make it hell for someone else. Hence they aren't really of the same debate.
314d1
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314d1
3,817 posts
Nomad

The disastrous effect of drugs, say cocaine are effects on oneself. So if I overdose and my heart stops I harm myself. But if you mishandle a gun, or a criminal gets hold of a gun, it's very easy to make it hell for someone else. Hence they aren't really of the same debate.


Oh really? I had just mentioned that alcohol kills a good percent of my state. Not just the drivers, but the people they hit, are killed a good amount of the time. Other drugs can cause you to go insane, causing them to attack people and such. How does it only effect them when so many people die in just car crashes caused by alcohol?
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