Forums → WEPR → Guns and Drugs- Same Debate?

When does that happen in the USA every month? And are you suggesting that people in the US are less intelligent?

there are dumb people evrywhere.
i gave the example of that dutch kid =)

How does it only effect them when so many people die in just car crashes caused by alcohol?

I didn't think of alcohol when I posted, but my response is as such:

There were 52,447 deliberate and 23,237 accidental non-fatal gunshot injuries in the United States during 2000. The majority of gun-related deaths in the United States are suicides, with 17,352 (55.6%) of the total 31,224 firearm-related deaths in 2007 due to suicide, while 12,632 (40.5%) were homicide deaths.

By contrast, drunk driving caused roughly 10,000-11,000 deaths in 2009.

As far as I'm concerned the debate isn't wholly similar, mainly because guns are unnecessary apart from people in places which engage in hunting practices. Guns for safety? Call a cop. By legalising guns in a bid to make citizens feel safer with a pistol under the pillow, you're also allowing criminals an outlet to purchase weapons.

The purpose of alcohol or some recreational drugs is to bring about utility, or happiness in moderation. The end goal of guns are to protect oneself because dealers are allowed to sell guns to criminals because owning guns are legal, which to me, is just another vicious cycle.

There were 52,447 deliberate and 23,237 accidental non-fatal gunshot injuries in the United States during 2000. The majority of gun-related deaths in the United States are suicides, with 17,352 (55.6%) of the total 31,224 firearm-related deaths in 2007 due to suicide, while 12,632 (40.5%) were homicide deaths.

By contrast, drunk driving caused roughly 10,000-11,000 deaths in 2009.

So basically they kill the same, when you are only naming one drug...

As far as I'm concerned the debate isn't wholly similar, mainly because guns are unnecessary apart from people in places which engage in hunting practices. Guns for safety? Call a cop.

"When seconds mater, we are minutes away" is a good quote for this. How are you going to call a cop when someone is attacking you?

By legalising guns in a bid to make citizens feel safer with a pistol under the pillow, you're also allowing criminals an outlet to purchase weapons.

Which is better then allowing only criminals to have guns and making civilians less safe.

The purpose of alcohol or some recreational drugs is to bring about utility, or happiness in moderation.

When used responsibly, they can be great. Same thing with guns. If you use them responsibly, there is no problem.

The end goal of guns are to protect oneself because dealers are allowed to sell guns to criminals because owning guns are legal, which to me, is just another vicious cycle.

At least then it is gun on gun rather than fist on knife, assuming for some reason they couldn't get a gun. Who is going to win, the smaller man who is surprised to find a criminal in his house and unarmed, or the larger armed man who is intent on attacking? Put a gun in their hands and at least they are more equal.

"When seconds mater, we are minutes away" is a good quote for this. How are you going to call a cop when someone is attacking you?

When someone is attacking me, either I run, call for help, or just fend him off with whatever I have. I'm not going to be stupid enough to engage in a fight, even if I have a gun.

Which is better then allowing only criminals to have guns and making civilians less safe.

Stricter gun laws, and the drying up of gun sources by making it illegal to own firearms would solve this in the long run.

When used responsibly, they can be great. Same thing with guns. If you use them responsibly, there is no problem.

My point was that such drugs bring happiness or utility directly. A gun doesn't do that. A gun is just a safety measure, it most certainly does not belong in the entertainment and recreation section.

At least then it is gun on gun rather than fist on knife, assuming for some reason they couldn't get a gun.

The last time I checked on my mum when she was in the kitchen, knives aren't illegal.

Who is going to win, the smaller man who is surprised to find a criminal in his house and unarmed, or the larger armed man who is intent on attacking?

Easier and less dangerous solution: Call a cop.

Our differences arise because I come from a society where the laws are strict, but the streets are extremely safe. Robbery on one day, and the police are off immediately to nab the perpetrators. We aren't called the Disneyland with a Death Penalty for no reason.

Easier and less dangerous solution: Call a cop.

A bullet travels faster than a cop. You call the police, you die. You don't call the police, you die. You put a load of buckshot in their face, they die. Common sense really.

while 12,632 (40.5%) were homicide deaths.

Of which more than 90% were caused with a pistol, many of those under the age of 21. The vast majority of guns used in crime were not purchased legally, and those that are are typically domestic issues, crimes of passion, and so on, between spouses, children, and parents.

With more than three hundred million firearms in the US, gun control at this point would be utterly useless. If America was, say, the UK, and didn't have a 'gun culture,' then something might be accomplished. As it stands however, you are literally only punishing the innocent by banning guns, as the vast majority of firearm crimes are used with stolen, illegally purchased, or other such firearms. Contrary to popular belief as well, the majority of gun owners are actually very responsible. The "kid gets a hold of gun and shoots friend" story is extremely uncommon.

To reflect:

Most gun crimes are committed with pistols.
Pistols are illegal for those under 21.
Those in the 17-25 group accounted for a large percentage of gun crime.
Most of these guns are illegal.
Gun control affects primarily legal owners.

Moving on.

Among those who were victims of gun related homicide, most were or have been involved in crime and/or gang activity. Within some cities, the number of those murdered being convicted felons was as high as 93%. People involved in crime are statistically extremely more likely to be murdered, especially involving firearms. This is due to a simple law of reality: People in crime don't care about breaking the law. This also coincides with the fact that the vast majority of guns are illegal as it is, and the possessors are often underage, convicted felons, or both, and already committing a crime possessing the firearm.

As opposed to uncle Joe with six guns in the backwoods, where a murder hasn't occurred in his county in fifteen years.

That is why gun laws are bull****.

A bullet travels faster than a cop. You call the police, you die. You don't call the police, you die. You put a load of buckshot in their face, they die. Common sense really.

Again, that's assuming a robber would willingly shoot knowing the possibility of conviction of murder.

As stated earlier, I live in a completely different society, and I'm thanking my stars for that. I can live safely, and yet not carry a heater. Seeing that gun control is either not possible, or not supported, then arming citizens would be better. That still doesn't mean I necessarily agree that guns and drugs are the same.

My point was that such drugs bring happiness or utility directly. A gun doesn't do that. A gun is just a safety measure, it most certainly does not belong in the entertainment and recreation section.

I beg to differ. Guns are very fun to shoot and they teach responsibility as well, I speak from first hand experience. There's no better incentive than the potential to blow your face off to make you more responsible.

Call a cop.

The horrible sad truth is that mostly cops are only able to be called after a tragedy has happened. My own brother was brutally murdered with a gun and he didn't have time to say "Would you please hold on a second good sir? I have to use the telephone" and there wasn't anywhere for him to run. Although, I don't actually support the purchasing of guns to use specifically for self defense.

Again, that's assuming a robber would willingly shoot knowing the possibility of conviction of murder.

I doubt any criminal with a gun is deterred by the law. If they were, they wouldn't be criminals and they wouldn't have a gun. If a wacko or criminal is intent on harming another person it doesn't matter if he has a gun or not. As, for drugs i don't think having both guns and drugs legal are a good combination.

I doubt any criminal with a gun is deterred by the law. If they were, they wouldn't be criminals and they wouldn't have a gun. If a wacko or criminal is intent on harming another person it doesn't matter if he has a gun or not. As, for drugs i don't think having both guns and drugs legal are a good combination.

Robbery is punished by a prison sentence, murder with the death penalty or life, or at the very least, a much longer sentence than robbery. Even a petty mugger would value his life more than the green in your wallet.

Robbery is punished by a prison sentence, murder with the death penalty or life, or at the very least, a much longer sentence than robbery. Even a petty mugger would value his life more than the green in your wallet.

If a robber is in your house while you're home, chances are they don't give a flipping dung beetle about your life. Any good burglar knows to wait for everyone to leave the house before ransacking the place. It's common sense, especially in places (see: Texas) that have very lax gun laws in relation to the property of the owner. Armed invaders are very often willing to shoot if people resist.

If a robber is in your house while you're home, chances are they don't give a flipping dung beetle about your life. Any good burglar knows to wait for everyone to leave the house before ransacking the place. It's common sense, especially in places (see: Texas) that have very lax gun laws in relation to the property of the owner. Armed invaders are very often willing to shoot if people resist.

Plausibly. You have a point there. Given that gun control or making guns illegal is impossible in the USA, that's that.