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Forums → WEPR → Wicca/Pagansm/polytheism
| 46 | 5096 |
Can I get a hey from my fellow "alternative" religions?
I am Wiccan, but I also identify as a Kitchen Witch. If you are into holistic medicine or green witchcraft we should totes swap recipes/spells/remedies. <3
- 46 Replies
I've found that it is never really worth the trouble to talk to someone about spellwork, prayer, or faith when they are absolutely sure they do not believe in it.
Perhaps, but that's not quite the point. You don't have to believe something to understand why that person believes it. So even if we don't agree, we can still put ourselves in your shoes and look at it from your end, even if we personally don't think that it's true.
I believe that the God and the Goddess are definitely separate beings though
Why do you believe there are two gods? Why not one? Why not more?
The Goddess's preferred place of being is the earth itself, and everything is a part of Her.
When you say "a part of her" do you mean literally?
I haven't given the planets much thought, however I suppose since they don't hold intelligent life (at least not in our solar system) I suppose they are just a part of the heavens.
To me this sounds like an apologetic sort of thing. If the Earth is actually a goddess (?) then why would every other planet-form not be a god of some sort?
That's just one example.
To me this sounds like some logical physical explanation has been found, but then arbitrarily has a mystical or magical power attributed to it despite this. So we can observe that mint can have these effects. Why does there need to be another side to it?
To be honest, I was hoping for something simpler and more fun than defending my faith
I'm not exactly sure what you were looking for then. Religion isn't a happy fun time subject, especially when it gets down to claims which cannot be backed.
I suppose because there was a whole section linked from the main forums page, which had so few links to sections, about politics and religion, that I might find positive company.
Don't take it personally, but this forum is meant to be a debate style sub-forum. Differing opinions/views are presented and discussed, and in turn attacked and defended. It's not personal the seemingly hostile posts (well, for the most part) it's just that we're all used to either presenting our own argument and defending it or tearing apart the other person's. This isn't a Q&A type section.
glad to see 3141d is still being a dramatic, self righteous, overly opinionated, pompous, arrogant, ignorant, problem causer. makes me feel like there is some amount of continuity to this crazy and ever changing world.
I hadn't posted to a forum in a while, and I feel this was a mistake
don't let him be the reason you stop. faith is faith, and your completely right. some people have none. not that i agree with your assessment that he doesn't have the ability. i'm sure someone took it away from him at some point, and he needs to take it away from everyone else because of that. all in all aourai, your awesome, and don't you forget it!!!!
nevetsthereaper
Believe in whatever you wish too, people have a right to that, so long as it doesn't spill over and affect others detrimentally or in ways they wish not. Wicca, pastafarianism, Jedi, anything, I have no qualms, so long as the end result doesn't go something along the lines of "World conversion through any means possible."
@fracell Actually, most polytheistic faiths are much older than many mainstream religions. Many of those who practice are just trying to get back to their heritage's roots.
Paganism is dead, long live neo-paganism!
I'm not a pagan, but what I'm trying to express is that there may be remains of ancient traditions in remote villages, but mostly ancient cults are dead. What we see today are neopaganistic trends with people trying to seek their own way instead of following the big religions. This is perfectly fine with me btw. But that still makes them modern movements who simply took many parts of the old ones.
Apart from that, I'm with nicho. As long as you're not proselytizing, you're welcome to believe what you want/talk about that belief.
@314d1 The reason I'm not being more in depth is I really don't care to be. I had hoped that this thread would attract people who wanted to share their thoughts on being part of a earth-based faith and how it effects their lives. I didn't think I'd have to defend my faith and I certainly didn't expect to be questioned and scrutinized or talked down to, which seems to be the case.
When you come to an open forum of ideas, expect it to be an open forum of ideas. Which means when you believe that you have magical powers, you will get laughed at. When isn't that the case?
In other words: I wasn't looking for a fight, I was looking to share thoughts. I don't think I'm going to get that here. It seems any time I try and talk about this on an internet forum, no matter the place, I leave disappointed. I really shouldn't have tried at all.
This isn't a fight. This is sharing ideas. I think your ideas are stupid, but I can't get more in depth than that if you don't give me more information on your beliefs.
I think ritual and spellwork can provide more than that. I feel that the reinforcement of the ideas of your goal through spellwork (like if a spell says you have to light a candle every day) helps you actually follow and attempt to achieve that goal. I think that goal's final achievement is due equally to your own effort and the blessings of a higher power.
I also understand that some people just plain don't believe in a higher power, and I think that they can achieve their goals as well. I for one feel strength in knowing the Goddess and God look after me and help me. Its not for everyone, but I don't expect it to be.
Wait. So your formula is:
Hard work+ MAGIC!= results ?
But you admit that Hard work= results itself...
So in other words the rituals are pointless?
I won't quote the larger paragraph, but here's my answer to it: I've found that it is never really worth the trouble to talk to someone about spellwork, prayer, or faith when they are absolutely sure they do not believe in it. As I do not practice a faith that preaches prosyletization (sp?) it isn't important to me, not worth my time, to try and sway others, nor is it really worth my time to continue to talk about something to someone who doesn't believe in it nor wants to believe in it nor is genuinely curious about it. I don't like it when a Christian starts talking at me about Jesus, I pay the same respect to people regarding my faith that I prefer from others.
Then how about I propose a test worth it's time? I have an acquaintance who had cancer a while back, and ended up losing a leg. This guy is just a kid with no leg. So since apparently the omnipotent earth is helping you, why not bring his leg back? Since apparently you have some kind of magical karma, bringing back an amputee's leg would get you the equivalent to ten legs, which I will assume is an amazing amount. It would also give your belief some scientific backing. So if you have your omnipotent friend working for you, why not give my acquaintance his leg back?
For me all Gods are one God, aspects of a many faceted being who has appeared before mankind in many forms, dependent on what they needed, but because this God is omnipotent, he can also appear as a pantheon or several Gods, or work through several people at once. That last bit seems to be where I differ from Wiccans, and lean more towards the umbrella general word "agan."
Wait. So you believe that every god that humanity has ever made up actually existed, but they where just one god messing with everyone? That doesn't make much since. Why would he do that?
This also goes for the Goddess. Take that whole paragraph and replace God and He with Goddess and She respectively.
I thought you said there was only one who made up every god/goddess in existence? From Zeus to Baal to Yawheh to the great spirit? So he would be male and female? Why not go with the more accurate "It"?
I believe that the God and the Goddess are definitely separate beings though. Once again in line with Wicca.
...? So the god who is every god except the other god who is also every god? So they are both Zeus and Aphrodite, except for neither of them are each other?
The Goddess's preferred place of being is the earth itself, and everything is a part of Her. The God's preferred place of being is the heavens (the sky, the stars). I haven't given the planets much thought, however I suppose since they don't hold intelligent life (at least not in our solar system) I suppose they are just a part of the heavens.
Wait, so Earth is some magical land that a goddess apparently owns? Why doesn't the god just fill the other planets with life, multiplying his power a billion fold more than the goddess? He is omnipotent, has the means, so why not fill the galaxy (Mutliverse, universe, converse or whatever the hell he rules) and fill it with life?
If you think about it, why would a goddess choose one little blue dot and give the entirety of existence outside of it to someone else? That is insane.
I practice something that is known among pagans, witches, wiccan, etc. as Kitchen Witchcraft. The simple way to describe this is that everything in my home has a purpose both magical and mundane. Everyday life is a practice in ritual and faith.
"What is that?"
"That is a spoon"
"So you use it for eating?"
"No, I use it for summoning the infinite powers of an Earth goddess to do mundane things that I could do on my own. And for eating"
.........What? Everything you own is magical? That doesn't make much since. Eating your soup is worshiping a god?
A more complex way of describing it is best done by someone who i a better writer than I. If you really are interested I suggest any of these books by Ellen Dugan:
I will see if I can find a Skeptics Ellen Dugan online, I am not paying for a book of insanity.
Most of my "Alternative Faith" library consists of books on herbs and plants. I feel herbs and plants hold great power, and many of the magical and folk uses of herbs have roots in real medicinal value. For instance, mint is used in charms for safe and uneventful travel as well as strength. Mint's medicinal values are useful if you want to travel without event. It calms the stomach, and since many people complain about motion sickness (which I'm sure was always a problem, even in horse&buggy times) it can help ease the stress of travel. It helps with sinus congestion and headaches, which can be caused by being exposed to new pollen when travelling through an unfamiliar area. Easing headaches also helps people realize potential physically. Headaches can cripple some people.
You think that mint calming the stomach is magical? Then here, look at this! It is peptobismal! WORSHIP IT! And here is some "Aspirin". It calms headaches far better than the plant does, you should try it some time. It seems that medical science is much better than the plants. Maybe that is why we use medical science and not plants to heal our headaches and not table mints?
I will be here all day and night describing my faith and why I practice the way I do. However I feel many people who posted in this thread were being hostile and were not genuinely curious, nor did they want to share things with eachother. I hadn't posted to a forum in a while, and I feel this was a mistake. It certainly wasn't the right company to bring this topic up in, and I'm starting to find that it is never a good idea to discuss religion at all on the internet. I suppose because there was a whole section linked from the main forums page, which had so few links to sections, about politics and religion, that I might find positive company.
A bad idea? Why? Because people attack your insane beliefs? People attack your beliefs because they are insane. Look toward the light. Walk away from your insane magical religion and into the logical light of science and reason. Science and reason works a lot better than your spells do.
To be honest, I was hoping for something simpler and more fun than defending my faith. I work from home, I have a lot going on in my life, and I don't want something this time consuming added to it.
Time consuming? How fast do you type?
glad to see 3141d is still being a dramatic, self righteous, overly opinionated, pompous, arrogant, ignorant, problem causer. makes me feel like there is some amount of continuity to this crazy and ever changing world.
Glad to see random Newbs still recognize me.
I'm glad a few people popped in to help me feel slightly less stupid for posting as I did.
@Kasic My point is that I don't really want to deal with the stress of discussing faith with someone who adamantly wants to tell every person who has faith that they are wrong. I think, at least with some of the people who posted here, it was more important to be right than it was to discuss a topic with a level head and open mind.
I believe in two deities rather than one because the Sacred Masculine and Sacred Feminine are represented all around me. In the basic building blocks of our world. In humans and animals. Even in plants and stones. And I do mean that the Goddess is literally the earth. The earth is a creature, and all of us on it came from that creature and go back to Her. We cannot thrive without the heavenly bodies and the motions they set for us. As for other planets, I feel as of right now I have no cause to believe that, within our solar system, there are any planets that have the kind of connection and power to its organisms that earth has. I know there are organisms found on mars, bacteria or single cell organisms, but it isn't sentient life like here. However, it is always possible that the God and Goddess can thrive beyond themselves, just like humans can. I just don't have cause to believe that has happened yet.
As for the example I used for herbs having power, many of the folk uses were used long before medicinal uses were proven, and there are other folk uses that I know to be true. Such as keeping a chunk of Dragons Blood resin (its a tree, no one believes its an actual dragon, before anyone jumps on that!) in a white or red pouch keeps negative people away from me. I use it when I'm afraid there might be an argument, or when I'm at a convention (I sell merchandise at anime cons for a living) and someone is being very rude about my handmade items. I just hold it in my hand, take a deep breath and before the person can go any further they just leave. It works every time. Or how washing your hands in a lukewarm tea made of chamomile before gambling is supposed to help you win more (I've never tried this as I don't gamble much). My example of mint was just a way of showing that SOME folk uses had roots in proven medical science.
I feel religion should be a happier subject than it is. We live in a culture that puts religious focus on proselytizing faiths, faiths that think it is their job to convert, faiths that think they are the only one true way to the Divine. This puts many people who have no faith or don't have a strong opinion about faith on edge. I think opening up mature and open minded dialogue could help that, but I think that's just a pipe dream.
@reaperbackinaction Thanks for the kind words. I wasn't aware of the reputations some people have on the forums, as I don't really post to them that often.
@nichodemus I feel that lumping Wicca in with pastafarianism and Jedi was meant to be a rude dig.
@HahiHa Well it is a modern take on an old faith, but aren't faiths meant to grow with the times? Haven't Christianity and Judaism and Islam changed a bit over the years? Christianity is especially different from what it was in the early years. Even the dates of many holidays are different, changed by the Catholic Church so they would better coincide with the pagan beliefs or norther Europe and the British Isles, making the natives less reluctant to convert. So while Neo-Paganism, Wicca, and other "alternative" faiths may be modern representations, vastly changed from their historical counterparts, you can say the same about mainstream religions as well.
Glad to see random Newbs still recognize me.
you'd recognize me as well, if you didn't help get me banned 2 years ago mate. another one of your "intellectual" approaches to winning an argument. if you cant beat em, whine to a mod friend and get them banned. works every-time.
regardless, i had a question for you 3141d, as an atheist, and an A-sexual atheist at that. is it possible that you and all of your cohorts are wrong? not saying you are ( Heavens no), but is it possible?
you'd recognize me as well, if you didn't help get me banned 2 years ago mate. another one of your "intellectual" approaches to winning an argument. if you cant beat em, whine to a mod friend and get them banned. works every-time.
....Eh? I have no clue who the hell you are.
regardless, i had a question for you 3141d, as an atheist, and an A-sexual atheist at that. is it possible that you and all of your cohorts are wrong? not saying you are ( Heavens no), but is it possible?
...Asexual atheist? I think your thinking of Avorne over there.
Is it possible I am wrong in what?
Well it is possible, as in about the same probability that we are all actually kidney stones in a giant celestial teapot who is a dream of a man who is a brain in the jar.
So no, not practically. It is practically impossible for me to be wrong in religious beliefs. Not that it matters in this conversation.
regardless, i had a question for you 3141d, as an atheist, and an A-sexual atheist at that. is it possible that you and all of your cohorts are wrong? not saying you are ( Heavens no), but is it possible?
I wouldn't get him going. I'm just not going to respond to him anymore. He didn't come here to discuss anything, he came here to make himself feel better while trying to make others feel bad. He doesn't want an honest conversation, he wants to yell at his screen and tell everyone who doesn't think like them that they are crazy.
I wouldn't get him going. I'm just not going to respond to him anymore. He didn't come here to discuss anything, he came here to make himself feel better while trying to make others feel bad. He doesn't want an honest conversation, he wants to yell at his screen and tell everyone who doesn't think like them that they are crazy.
Am I? Did you use your magical powers to find my intentions? In that case, you are just here to taint the minds of the new generation and eventually eat them. That is why you are here, right?
"Don't think like me and you are crazy"? I can understand if you disagree with me in some things in politics, abortion, gun control, or something like that. I think people who think they have magical powers are crazy. Or are you to say that you are not crazy?
I thought the point of this thread was to have alternate religion buddies talk instead of others verbally destroying their religion.
314d1, I hope you don't think I'm rude, but why do you have to dissect everybody's religion?
I understand you're an atheist and I respect that, I have an uncle who is atheist, but do you really have to question every tangent and dissect every ideal of their religion? It's really quite unnecessary.
Frankly, I'm pretty interested about their religion. Doesn't mean I'm going to switch from being mormon to this, but I at least want to show them the same respect as I hope others would show me.
Again, I hope I haven't offended you.
On a side note, the reCaptcha is driving me crazy. I know it's needed, but I can barely read the words...
Wiccan...
The OTHER Satanists...
-Chillz - Your Friendly Neighborhood Satanist
I thought the point of this thread was to have alternate religion buddies talk instead of others verbally destroying their religion.
That is funny. I thought the point was to talk about "Wicca/Pagansm (Paganism?)/polytheism". So talked I have.
314d1, I hope you don't think I'm rude, but why do you have to dissect everybody's religion?
For science. To help them and the world. For reason. Why not?
I understand you're an atheist and I respect that, I have an uncle who is atheist, but do you really have to question every tangent and dissect every ideal of their religion? It's really quite unnecessary.
It is completely necessary. Especially since we are on a forum to do specifically that. It would get annoying if I went around to people's houses and handed out things (Like some religions sects do. But of course you are not one of those?). But I am on a forum meant to talk about these things, so I talk about these things. And I don't like them, and state their flaws.
Frankly, I'm pretty interested about their religion. Doesn't mean I'm going to switch from being mormon to this, but I at least want to show them the same respect as I hope others would show me.
I am interested in how they, or you for that matter, could believe in something as insane as magic. Why have their beliefs done to deserve respect? Beliefs deserve no respect, and I have only been attacking these ridiculous beliefs in magic. As I would if you made a forum for your religion.
Again, I hope I haven't offended you.
You have offended me on a scale past human understanding. The only way to settle this is with a duel. Since I am challenging you, you get to pick the weapon and location. It is only fare to warn you that I am an expert swordsman. And marksman. And a level 99 wizard.
On a side note, the reCaptcha is driving me crazy. I know it's needed, but I can barely read the words...
And it works about as well as a Wiccan spell, considering spam is still getting threw.
Whenever I read what you post, I feel an interesting combo of rage, pity, and amusement.
...It's strange.
And I may be just a squire, but Merlin and me chill on weekends. And he owes me one.
Watch out.
As for the example I used for herbs having power, many of the folk uses were used long before medicinal uses were proven, and there are other folk uses that I know to be true.
That dosen't really prove anything. People knew the herbs did stuff (remedies or poison etc) but didn't know why, so they attributed the effects to God/god(s) and spells/chants/etc. We can now know that there's physical causations, such as vitamins or other phytochemicals.
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