Here's what I've always been curious about, shouldn't God be the one begging our forgiveness and not vice-versa, shouldn't he be on his hands and knees begging us to forgive his sins? Like I mean come on he flooded the whole world (twice was it?) and all he does is feel sorry about it and expects everything to be all right with it and people to feel glad he is our creator and expects us to pray to him, and worship him? Shouldn't he be begging our forgiveness for being all powerful and letting all the sick horrible crap around us go on, like poverty and such? Shouldn't he beg our forgiveness for allowing parents and babies to be killed in child birth?
Perhaps the worst most sickening thing is that if the bible is true (that's a pretty big if) he allows babies to go to hell for not believening in him as an infant (if they died as an infant). So if a baby dies in child birth he/she will go to hell and suffer for an eternity because if I am correct you need to worship God to go to heaven. When I say babies I include the people who have no chance in knowing about him.
1. Shouldn't this go in one of the other numerous threads? 2. God, as creator, has supreme authority over His creations - the things that he defines as good and bad, the things that He does and doesn't do, everything is part of His infallible divine plan that the minds of mortal man cannot comprehend. God gave you life in the first place and it's His decision when to take that gift away. 3. Miracles are evidence of Gods help in the world - He could cure every single problem that everyone had if He wanted to but that wouldn't really require 'faith' on the part of people in the world and faith in God is conductive to love of God. 4. I think the opinions of what happens to children and babies when they die differs from church to church - not all believe in what you just outlined.
I'm not a Christian, or religious at all, so I'm not sure if I answered this as a genuine Christian would but those are some common arguments I've come across.
God, as creator, has supreme authority over His creations - the things that he defines as good and bad, the things that He does and doesn't do, everything is part of His infallible divine plan that the minds of mortal man cannot comprehend. God gave you life in the first place and it's His decision when to take that gift away.
It amazes me that some people would think this way and think that God's acts are justified because of this. Mass genocide and murder is okay because he made us? Mass murder is okay because he say it's okay? He created us, so he has the right to kill us whenever he wants? Sounds more like a dictator to me than an all loving God to me, or some sort of tyrant
Miracles are evidence of Gods help in the world - He could cure every single problem that everyone had if He wanted to but that wouldn't really require 'faith' on the part of people in the world and faith in God is conductive to love of God.
There are no God made miracles, doesn't it say something in the bible that he doesn't intervene on this planet anymore? Man why do we need faith in him for him to do something kind and loving? That sounds a little silly to me, refusing to do kind things because that wouldn't require faith on behalf of man, but expecting faith while he lets the problems continue.
I think the opinions of what happens to children and babies when they die differs from church to church - not all believe in what you just outlined.
I thought all Christian churches agree that you need to have faith in God, pray to him and beg forgiveness for your sins to go to heaven -.-
well, you dont need to belive in god to go to heven, it just means less time in purgatory. purgatory is like in the middle. its not all holy and right, like heven, but its not eternal punishment, like hell. i think of it as school basicly. death is birth and purgatory is school. you "learn" about what you have done during life, "learn" what you did, and spend a good amount of time their. everyone will go through purgatory, but it depends how good you were on earth how long you stay their. granted, you have eternity, so a few million years is nothing really..... sorry if im butting heads with any religions out their. im catholic...
shouldn't God be the one begging our forgiveness and not vice-versa
why?
Like I mean come on he flooded the whole world
I don't remember god doing that
people to feel glad he is our creator
I don't know about you, but I feel glad that I exist...
and expects us to pray to him, and worship him
Did he force you to pray/worship him? I must be a special person, because he never forced me to pray/worship him...
Shouldn't he be begging our forgiveness for being all powerful and letting all the sick horrible crap around us go on, like poverty and such?
It easy to run away from problems and give the blame to god. The reality is, there is enough resource and money to make everybody have a good life. So don't blame god, but blame your fellow human being.
2) He kicked us out of the Garden of Eden for being ignorant of evil and then falling prey to it.
3) He made us imperfect.
4) He has killed millions of people directly through acts of fire and flooding.
5) He has commanded us to pretty much stone anyone who disagrees with us.
6) He has flip flopped on multiple issues.
7) Eternally punishes people for petty reasons.
Need I go on? I could do this for a while.
I don't remember god doing that
Noah...? Killed all but >20 people...?
I don't know about you, but I feel glad that I exist...
Keep in mind he only made us to worship him.
Did he force you to pray/worship him? I must be a special person, because he never forced me to pray/worship him...
YES? Except it's not a "did" but a "if you don't you get punished eternally" sort of deal. He holds the spiritual gun to our soul and tells us to bow down to him and we have no say.
It easy to run away from problems and give the blame to god.
It's also easy for a perfect God to make a perfect world, or fix an imperfect one. I wonder why he didn't/hasn't?
The reality is, there is enough resource and money to make everybody have a good life. So don't blame god, but blame your fellow human being.
God made us, remember? That's like saying, "Blame your car, not the engineer who designed it," when your entire family dies in a horrible accident because the wheels came off, the airbags failed to deploy, the seatbelts were as strong as paper and the frame was made of tinfoil.
Here's what I've always been curious about, shouldn't God be the one begging our forgiveness and not vice-versa, shouldn't he be on his hands and knees begging us to forgive his sins? Like I mean come on he flooded the whole world (twice was it?) and all he does is feel sorry about it and expects everything to be all right with it and people to feel glad he is our creator and expects us to pray to him, and worship him? Shouldn't he be begging our forgiveness for being all powerful and letting all the sick horrible crap around us go on, like poverty and such? Shouldn't he beg our forgiveness for allowing parents and babies to be killed in child birth?
Short answer:No. He doesn't need to be forgiven. Long answer: He created us, and gave us simple instructions. Almost every time we take him for granted. We disobey him, so he killed everyone to get rid of wickedness. (Flood. P.S., There was only one and will only be one world-wide flood.) Also, he doesn't really control the Earth, Satan does. He is trying to prove the man can be on their own, and Jehovah, (God's name.) has no right to rule.
You're right. Shooting him would be much more just. If God were human, he would be the world's worst mass murderer by over a thousand times in terms of kills; he would be the environmentalists worst friend, as he put every animal on the endangered species list with one move; he would be charged with infinite torture, as he has now according to the Bible been torturing billions of people for over 5000 years.
Long answer: He created us, and gave us simple instructions.
Yes, simple instructions given to people with no concept of good, evil, or lying. People who might as well have been babies and who he let in the wolf.
We disobey him, so he killed everyone to get rid of wickedness. (Flood. P.S., There was only one and will only be one world-wide flood.)
Wickedness which he created, whether passively or not. When you claim omnipotence, everything is your fault as you could have stopped it. Jimmy fell off a cliff, God's fault. Why? He could have saved him.
Oh, and don't forget the rapture which involves billions more dying for God's narcissism.
Also, he doesn't really control the Earth, Satan does
But God could stop Satan at any time. By not doing so, he allows Satan to do whatever. This is the equivilant of an army of soldiers trailing their guns on a murderer, but not stopping him. Sure, the murderer is the one at fault, but the soldiers didn't stop him either and should be charged as an accomplice.
2) He kicked us out of the Garden of Eden for being ignorant of evil and then falling prey to it.
3) He made us imperfect.
4) He has killed millions of people directly through acts of fire and flooding.
5) He has commanded us to pretty much stone anyone who disagrees with us.
6) He has flip flopped on multiple issues.
7) Eternally punishes people for petty reasons.
Need I go on? I could do this for a while.
I don't remember god doing that
Noah...? Killed all but >20 people...?
I don't know about you, but I feel glad that I exist...
Keep in mind he only made us to worship him.
Did he force you to pray/worship him? I must be a special person, because he never forced me to pray/worship him...
YES? Except it's not a "did" but a "if you don't you get punished eternally" sort of deal. He holds the spiritual gun to our soul and tells us to bow down to him and we have no say.
It easy to run away from problems and give the blame to god.
It's also easy for a perfect God to make a perfect world, or fix an imperfect one. I wonder why he didn't/hasn't?
The reality is, there is enough resource and money to make everybody have a good life. So don't blame god, but blame your fellow human being.
God made us, remember? That's like saying, "Blame your car, not the engineer who designed it," when your entire family dies in a horrible accident because the wheels came off, the airbags failed to deploy, the seatbelts were as strong as paper and the frame was made of tinfoil.
Well, Jehovah only killed people in the flood because they were evil. And only seven or eight people survived. Also, he didn't trick us. He gave Adam and Eve a simple task. Live happily except don't eat from this one tree. That was his tree that we couldn't have, but Satan challenged his right to rule. Jehovah doesn't force us to worship him. He gave us a choice because he wants us to be independent. He wants us to serve and worship him out of want. And he blesses us for worshiping him. I know tons of examples. He does not eternally punish us. There is no thing as Hell. Once you die, you are dead and nothing happens to you. Your soul can die. Once it's dead it's dead. Jehovah hasn't fixed the world because he wants Satan to try to prove that Jehovah doesn't have the right to rule. Once Satan fail, he will step in and turn the world into a perfect place. But only those with the right heart, who really want to serve him out of love, will be saved. For more, go to www.watchtower.org.
2) He kicked us out of the Garden of Eden for being ignorant of evil and then falling prey to it.
3) He made us imperfect.
4) He has killed millions of people directly through acts of fire and flooding.
5) He has commanded us to pretty much stone anyone who disagrees with us.
6) He has flip flopped on multiple issues.
7) Eternally punishes people for petty reasons.
I never seen god, heard god, remember god. Those people who believe that, must be very special people.
Noah...? Killed all but >20 people...?
Did that happen? do you believe that they gathered 2 of each specie in a ship, then destroyed everything beside the ship?
Keep in mind he only made us to worship him.
did he tell you that? or did an old man in a church tell you that?
[quote]YES? Except it's not a "did" but a "if you don't you get punished eternally" sort of deal. He holds the spiritual gun to our soul and tells us to bow down to him and we have no say.
I don't remember him saying that
God made us, remember
god is perfect, so he made something perfect. And to make something perfect, it need free will. We got free will, so no one but ourselves can be judge by our actions.
by the way I am not Christian, so bible is not a evidence. And if this topic was made for Christians, then I am sorry and I wont post more.
Well, Jehovah only killed people in the flood because they were evil.
But he made them that way, remember?
And only seven or eight people survived.
I know, Noah and parts of his family. I just didn't want to bother to remember how many because 8-200 people is still only a small, small percentage of all the humans that were living.
Also, he didn't trick us. He gave Adam and Eve a simple task. Live happily except don't eat from this one tree.
Pfft. Adam and Eve had no concept of Good or Evil. Thus no concept of deception. God allowed the serpent (or Satan, depending on what you believe) into the Garden of Eden by his nature (being that he could have stopped him) and thus LET Adam and Eve fall prey to Satan. God's fault.
He does not eternally punish us. There is no thing as Hell.
Oh, so which of the 40,000 Christian denomination are you?
But only those with the right heart, who really want to serve him out of love, will be saved.
Yes yes, God only wants those who worship him, we know. It was his reason for making us in the first place.
You know, since you don't apreciate what I'm trying to tell you, I'll just stop. I was just trying to answer your questions. If you have a bible, read Genesis Chapters 1-3. It should answer your questions like I did. Also, do check out www.watchtower.org .
If you have a bible, read Genesis Chapters 1-3. It should answer your questions like I did.
I have read them. They were the first three in fact! (haha)
Not so sure how God creating the universe and the earth in seven days in a wacko order, or how God makes peoples answers any of the questions which I don't have. The Adam and Eve part eating the fruit is already what I said earlier, the serpent tricked Eve, God allowed it to happen by being omnipotent and not stopping it, then punished them.
