ForumsWEPR[spam necro] Rich/Poor divide?

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Target_Practice
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Target_Practice
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Nomad

Essentially how do the rich keep on getting richer whilst the poor keep on getting poorer. Surely in a civilised society the rich should sacrifice a few of their fast cars and big houses so that the people who slave 12 hours a day in their sweat shops can eat.

Discuss.

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partydevil
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partydevil
5,134 posts
Jester

The rich are getting higher incomes (becoming richer). The poor however in most cases maintain the same income while simultaneously having to deal with rising costs of living. So in this sense the rich do get richer while the poor do get poorer.


about how poor are we talking then? are talking about the poor as in those whitout a house, job, food, etc. or the poor who have a little job and maybe a few other resources but just very short on everything. or poor as in we have a house and the food stamps are doing it's job but getting a better job myself would do be good. poor.

i mean if you literally have nothing. how more poor can you get? while bill gates his number just kept counting.
MageGrayWolf
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MageGrayWolf
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Farmer

about how poor are we talking then? are talking about the poor as in those whitout a house, job, food, etc. or the poor who have a little job and maybe a few other resources but just very short on everything. or poor as in we have a house and the food stamps are doing it's job but getting a better job myself would do be good. poor.


I really should have put quote on poor in that statement. In this case it would be the middle class and lower.
HahiHa
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HahiHa
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Regent

thats not true.
the crisis started whit the banks that set it all rolling.
it was a economical crisis not created by the governments. but banks who wanted to make to much profit of their clients by spending their money on the stock market.

Pay attention, I never said that the crisis is due because not all taxes are paid. But if they were, the crisis would not be one even with the behaviour of the banks.

also if every1 would pay their taxes then their still would be debts in the world.

That's the point. There wouldn't.
But eh, neither of us can back up our claims, so lets forget about that. I only wanted to say that if everybody paid the taxes, there would be no need to make them higher or tax the rich more and stuff like that.
partydevil
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partydevil
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Jester

neither of us can back up our claims


good point. we will never know for sure.
AnaLoGMunKy
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AnaLoGMunKy
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Blacksmith

So in this sense the rich do get richer while the poor do get poorer.


Aye thats very true. One of my brothers main qualms is that the wages are not actually going up with the cost of living meaning life is more expensive for the basic needs.

It's apparently common known fact that if everyone paid the taxes he/she should pay, there would be no crisis in the world.

if everybody paid the taxes, there would be no need to make them higher or tax the rich more and stuff like that.


When you think of exactly how much more the mega-rich have and how much more the mega-poor have to pay this doesnt really make sense. If you take the total amount not payed in tax (by fraud or mistake) then that still pales to looking like mere pocket change compared to the amount of money that the mega-rich have. I love seeing headlines like "17 million lost in tax from lazy poor people" because our government just spent over 500 million (AND COUNTING!!!) on some trams that they KNOW will not bring in the tourists or repay the debt in any decent timeframe. In other words, its a total loss for something that we dont need. Perhaps thats a better place to start rather than sucking blood from a stone.
How can we expect the really poor people to pay the taxes. I know people have it set into them that taxes are a way of life but once again I would stress that this only needs to exist in the current system.
BritHennerz
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BritHennerz
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Farmer

It's apparently common known fact that if everyone paid the taxes he/she should pay, there would be no crisis in the world.

99% of people do pay taxes, and it isn't mainly the rich who don't. You may see some rich person who didn't pay his taxes being trailed on TV but that's because it makes for a more interesting news story. Tax evasion is rough spread through all parts of the class system. You could argue that there are fewer rich people and thus a bigger percentage of them don't pay taxes but a lot more poorer people undertake benefit fraud.
In my opinion taxes are too high for the rich. There is no drive to work hard for a promotion if you will end up having to pay 50% of your income and ending up being worse off.
Look at countries like Hong Kong. 20% tax rate across the board and economically it's doing very well.
The rich do what they can but many have worked hard all their life and think that they pay enough into the Public Sector (Government owned workplaces and facilities) with the large amounts of tax they are paying and deserve to use the rest for their own.
I have to say that I agree to that to a certain extent but that doesn't detract from the fact that there are so many people struggling out there. Maybe they could blame the rich a little bit less than they do but it's not their fault. Sure they might not have got good enough grades at school but not everyone is meant to be intelligent. There are other factors involved as well. Bad schooling, poor parenting and discrimination by students when they were learning that caused bad grades and therefore jobs that don't pay as well.

But lets also remember that the poorest in economically developed countries would be some of the richest in very poor countries.

In 1820 the richer countries were three times as rich as the poorer ones, in 1997 this factor increased to 74. So imagine what it is now.

People complain about being poor in my country but some still have a game console, a reasonably large TV and some other luxuries. We need to learn that we can't all have these luxuries in a recession.

We all need to pay taxes to support our Governments but sometimes it is too much for some families to cope, believe me the rich try hard but I believe the only way through these difficult times is to work together. I don't just mean the rich handing out millions to the poor but starting up businesses to create more jobs and other schemes to help those in desperate need out of poverty.

After focusing on our own countries we really need to look at others less fortunate than our own. Africa is starving. We need to help them as much as possible.
partydevil
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partydevil
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Jester

I know people have it set into them that taxes are a way of life but once again I would stress that this only needs to exist in the current system.


you mean the current system that is used for the last few 1000 year?

a country can not function whitout taxes

In my opinion taxes are too high for the rich. There is no drive to work hard for a promotion if you will end up having to pay 50% of your income and ending up being worse off.


that is a falls truth. when you earn more you have to pay more over the amount you earn more. you don't have to pay more for your total amount.
so in the end your always better of.

Look at countries like Hong Kong.

hong kong does nearly have 0 poor people because they will be kicked out of hong kong into the mainland.
seeing hong kong as a real normal country like monaco is wrong.

But lets also remember that the poorest in economically developed countries would be some of the richest in very poor countries.

remembers me of something ive seen on tv a few moneths (a year) ago.
it was about rich people around the globe. and they went to angola and found a very rich guy. many many people in angola knows him because he is so rich. but not rich as how you see people being rich.
he had over 150 cows and around 40 wives. that was what they counted as being very rich and the man had actualy a very good life because of this.

being rich is not only your amount of money. especialy in the undeveloped countrys money isn't worth much in the public eye.

In 1820 the richer countries were three times as rich as the poorer ones,

i think great britain was way more then 3 times as rich then congo was in that time.
congo had barly anything like today while great britain had massive amounts of land and trade across the globe.
i dunno where you get your facts from but i would like to see a source for it.

People complain about being poor in my country but some still have a game console, a reasonably large TV and some other luxuries.

people only look at themself and compare what they have whit what they see other people have. in then they are looking at those that have more to spend. people usualy do not like to watch how bad other people have it, to see how good they actualy have it.

We all need to pay taxes to support our Governments but sometimes it is too much for some families to cope

i dunno if the usa has a safety net for these people. (i guess not) but in europe many countrys have.

After focusing on our own countries we really need to look at others less fortunate than our own. Africa is starving. We need to help them as much as possible.


yes and no.

yes we should look at those countrys so that we can stop whining that we have it so bad.

no the african countrys are not helpless. (some are yes) many just have a other way of living that some1 from the "western world" simply will never be able to adept to.
BritHennerz
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BritHennerz
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i think great britain was way more then 3 times as rich then congo was in that time.
congo had barly anything like today while great britain had massive amounts of land and trade across the globe.
i dunno where you get your facts from but i would like to see a source for it.


I learnt it when studying religious attitudes to poverty and Wealth in my ethics class at school.

people only look at themself and compare what they have whit what they see other people have. in then they are looking at those that have more to spend.


That is a good point, they are relatively poor and I think they need to see that they are not absolutely poor.


Can I just add when I said not everyone is meant to be intelligent I didn't mean that poor people are unintelligent. My older sister has a PHD in neuroscience but couldn't find a job for a few years and would have been considered poor.
AnaLoGMunKy
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AnaLoGMunKy
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Blacksmith

you mean the current system that is used for the last few 1000 year?


That doesnt mean its a good way of doing things anymore.

a country can not function whitout taxes


In the current system. Of course we can survive without the tax system but we do need other ways of distributing resources in a wise and logical way.

yes we should look at those countrys so that we can stop whining that we have it so bad.


Just top clarify, Im talking about the whole world, not only my country or western countries.

My older sister has a PHD in neuroscience but couldn't find a job for a few years and would have been considered poor.


I also have a friend who is in the same position she was. He is strugling to find ANY job, nevermind one that uses his Masters Degree. I think that education has more knock on effect than just getting a good job and can open someones mind to many possibilities and also many avenues of survival. Sadly some of the most indocrinated people are also the most educated. By indocrinated I mean people who fight to keep the status quo even tho it clearly does not benefit everyone nor does it benefit the human race in the future either.
nichodemus
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nichodemus
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Grand Duke

Iv also never understood rgis human fascination that everyone must work.


Well, since when is one rewarded without working?

Scarcity is caused in food supplies when there are plenty of supplies to be had.


No, the world does not produce quite enough to feed itself.

There is literally not enough jobs to go around. The population grows.


There aren't. But many of the jobs are going overseas, because other countries' populations are more competitive, as a result of being more educated and skilled.
partydevil
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partydevil
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Jester

That doesnt mean its a good way of doing things anymore.


good luck changing the world =)

In the current system. Of course we can survive without the tax system but we do need other ways of distributing resources in a wise and logical way.


give a example plz. i wouldn't know what to do whitout all the stuff the government pays for. like roads and transport systems you know. sure a company can do that but who is going to for it? no1 but the rich can pay for it and they wont do it because rich people did not get rich whit spending their money for free stuff.
AnaLoGMunKy
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AnaLoGMunKy
1,574 posts
Blacksmith

Well, since when is one rewarded without working?


I mean working in mundane needless jobs. I thought machines were meant to save us from work? They could really. Again this is idealism but also absolutly true. People dont actually need to sit in an office and sort out life insurance, do they? This does not make the world work. What it does do is keep the current system ticking over. A system that has failed a huge part of the worlds population.

i wouldn't know what to do whitout all the stuff the government pays for.


In a system with no money there would be no &quotaying" for things like roads. I have no answers but I can see the problems clearly enough.

good luck changing the world =)


Thanks, Ill need it.
HahiHa
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HahiHa
8,214 posts
Regent

99% of people do pay taxes,

Again someone who misunderstood me... I didn't mean 'ay no taxes at all', I said 'ay all taxes they should'. Meaning they do pay taxes, but not everything they should. Clear now?
nichodemus
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nichodemus
14,920 posts
Grand Duke

I mean working in mundane needless jobs. I thought machines were meant to save us from work? They could really. Again this is idealism but also absolutly true. People dont actually need to sit in an office and sort out life insurance, do they? This does not make the world work. What it does do is keep the current system ticking over. A system that has failed a huge part of the worlds population.


Yes, but who will own the machines, the machines who will defend your country, farm the massive farms we have now, man the huge factories that churn out our manufactured goods? Clue, they either start with a G or an R. That's why we have modern Luddite movements as well; I would hate it if machines were to take over our jobs. We would lose meaning to life, there would be no need to undertake education since machines will take care of us.

Even doctors are reputed to be possible victims, when machines diagnose much more efficiently than them.
AnaLoGMunKy
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AnaLoGMunKy
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Blacksmith

Even doctors are reputed to be possible victims, when machines diagnose much more efficiently than them.


Im surely not the only person who views this as a good thing? What would you rather. Risk an inept Doctor mis-diagnosing a cancerous cell as a growth of no concern or a machine thats practically infallible?

We would lose meaning to life, there would be no need to undertake education since machines will take care of us.


We would gain all the time in the world to devote to studying and understanding the universe in all its godless glory

I know what you are saying. It just doesnt need to apply. For the first time ever we would be free to find meaning in their lives instead of devoting it to needless services that only exist because of money. I mean, cmon, life insurance. What a joke! I know why, in this system, we have life insurance and pensions but they are outdated and actually hurt many people. Look at what happened to all the people that poured pension money into companies that went bust!


Im looking at what many view as the "realistic" approach to life and all I see is crazy people following a system because they are taught to. Believe me, thats not realistic, thats psychopathic because we are not learning from past experience. What am I meant to do when all I see are psychopaths running governments and corporations. Should I sit down and accept this because this is how the world is? Im actually NOT sure what to do so... Im here. On AG. A kids flash games website. Debating the future of the world
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