ForumsWEPRA perfect world.

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thepyro222
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thepyro222
2,150 posts
Peasant

What makes a perfect world? A question that has been asked many, many times. I believe that a perfect world is a world in equilibrium, perfect balance. I'm not saying 50% men to 50% women. The reality is much deeper.
You can't have happiness without sadness, you can't have anger without joy, you can't have good without evil, you can't have love without hate. If we had no violence, anger, hate, etc. We wouldn't have emotions. This goes beyond just people though. We can't have peace without war, we can't have sunny weather without rain, we can't have green grass and green trees without dead ones, and so on.
The reason for this is because without an opposite, it simply can't exist. For something to exist, it needs an opposite. I know this because of the above mentioned reasons.
So a perfect world is one of perfect balance.
That does it for me, does AG agree or disagree?

  • 64 Replies
partydevil
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partydevil
5,129 posts
Jester

my opinion:
perfect does not exist. it's impossible.

DSM
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DSM
1,303 posts
Nomad

So a perfect world is one of perfect balance.


doesn't that make our world perfect?
314d1
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314d1
3,817 posts
Nomad

What makes a perfect world?


Lack of flaws.

A question that has been asked many, many times.


What question has not been asked many many times?


I believe that a perfect world is a world in equilibrium, perfect balance. I'm not saying 50% men to 50% women. The reality is much deeper.


A strange thing coming from a Christian heaven-seeker.

You can't have happiness without sadness, you can't have anger without joy, you can't have good without evil, you can't have love without hate. If we had no violence, anger, hate, etc. We wouldn't have emotions. This goes beyond just people though. We can't have peace without war, we can't have sunny weather without rain, we can't have green grass and green trees without dead ones, and so on.


Yes you can. Why couldn't you?

So where does this leave your paradise, heaven seeker? Your paradise would be the Earth you hate so much.

The reason for this is because without an opposite, it simply can't exist. For something to exist, it needs an opposite. I know this because of the above mentioned reasons.


What is the opposite of corn? Noncorn? Anticorn? Corn has no opposite, yet it exists. You can easily have sunny weather without rain, other planets prove this.

So a perfect world is one of perfect balance.


So heaven seeker, what is your paradise, if not Earth?

That does it for me, does AG agree or disagree?


Disagree strongly.
MageGrayWolf
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MageGrayWolf
9,462 posts
Farmer

You can't have happiness without sadness, you can't have anger without joy, you can't have good without evil, you can't have love without hate. If we had no violence, anger, hate, etc. We wouldn't have emotions. This goes beyond just people though. We can't have peace without war, we can't have sunny weather without rain, we can't have green grass and green trees without dead ones, and so on.


Just because one hasn't experienced the negative aspect doesn't mean one couldn't feel the positive. For example, they might not be able to compare how good joy feels with how bad anger feels but they could compare one level of joy with another.
thepyro222
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thepyro222
2,150 posts
Peasant

@31
You caught me in a really bad mood. What is your problem. Do you just have a grudge against all people who actually believe in something?

thepyro222
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thepyro222
2,150 posts
Peasant

alright. Now that I am in a less bad mood, I can debate.
First off, I love how y'all turn this into a religious thing. It has nothing to do with religion. Heaven is a completely different set of parameters. Why? Because this world is a human- centered world. Heaven is a God- centered world. I'm not talking bout physical things, flaws versus perfection. the way we know what corn is, or what a cheeseburger is, is because of how they relate to other objects. Let's take corn as an example.
Corn, How do we know what corn is? It's yellow, it's sweet, it's a plant, etc. try to define corn without using a comparative (like the ones mentioned above.) I have yet to find someone who can.
Now, how do you explain what "joy" is? a feeling of happiness. Well, what's happiness? you're going to have to eventually use an opposite.
Even if you can define joy without using a comparative or an opposite, if you didn't know sadness, how would you know you're joyful? you wouldn't be able to comprehend the emotion or mental state. That's why we need the balance of sadness, or anger, so that we have an understanding of joy, or happiness. You can't have one without the other.

314d1
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314d1
3,817 posts
Nomad

@31

You caught me in a really bad mood. What is your problem. Do you just have a grudge against all people who actually believe in something?


No, only people who believe in something stupid.

So answer my question. If that is your definition of a perfect world, then why do you want to go to Christian heaven, which is nothing like you described, so bad? Earth is more perfect in your version than your own heaven, a place that is supposed to be perfect.
314d1
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314d1
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Nomad

alright. Now that I am in a less bad mood, I can debate.


Did you have to wait until the perfect moment, when I finish my homework, then started to respond?

First off, I love how y'all turn this into a religious thing. It has nothing to do with religion. Heaven is a completely different set of parameters.


Why is that? Heaven should be your perfect world, shouldn't it?

Why? Because this world is a human- centered world. Heaven is a God- centered world.


So why wouldn't your perfect world be a god-centered world?

I'm not talking bout physical things, flaws versus perfection. the way we know what corn is, or what a cheeseburger is, is because of how they relate to other objects. Let's take corn as an example.
Corn, How do we know what corn is? It's yellow, it's sweet, it's a plant, etc. try to define corn without using a comparative (like the ones mentioned above.) I have yet to find someone who can.


Yes we are. That is what perfection is.

It is a grain domesticated in the Americas. It is also a leafy stock plant with ears with kernels on them, which are often used as a food source. It is also often turned into ethanol. I could also bring up their chemical compound and DNA structure, but I don't have them on me.

So what is the opposite of corn?

Now, how do you explain what "joy" is? a feeling of happiness. Well, what's happiness? you're going to have to eventually use an opposite.


Why? I don't use antonyms to describe things. "Excuse me sir, do you know what the word 'jubilant' means? " "Yes of course. It is the opposite of sad!". It doesn't work that way. What is joy? A positive feeling. Dictionary definition. Notice how they don't mention what the opposite is.

Even if you can define joy without using a comparative or an opposite, if you didn't know sadness, how would you know you're joyful?


It would be quite easy, without sadness. How do you experience corn without anticorn?

you wouldn't be able to comprehend the emotion or mental state


Eh? Why not?

That's why we need the balance of sadness, or anger, so that we have an understanding of joy, or happiness. You can't have one without the other.


You can easily. Lets just look to mental patients for this, does anyone know a disease that blocks of certain emotions? It is possible to feel sadness without feeling joy and vice verca, someone could be depressed all their life, it is not like they can just say "OH, I have never been happy, and since I have never felt anticorn, that means I can feel no corn!" Mental patience prove that your theory is false.
EnterOrion
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EnterOrion
4,220 posts
Nomad

When communism is eradicated, we'll be in a perfect world.

MageGrayWolf
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MageGrayWolf
9,462 posts
Farmer

First off, I love how y'all turn this into a religious thing.


For the record only one person brought up the religious aspect.

Heaven is a completely different set of parameters. Why? Because this world is a human- centered world. Heaven is a God- centered world.


Since you seem to want to continue this point I will mention that all you are doing is putting forth a double standard.

Corn, How do we know what corn is? It's yellow, it's sweet, it's a plant, etc. try to define corn without using a comparative (like the ones mentioned above.) I have yet to find someone who can.
Now, how do you explain what "joy" is? a feeling of happiness. Well, what's happiness? you're going to have to eventually use an opposite.

Having a comparative isn't the problem with your argument, it's the requirement of a polar opposite in order to make the explanation.

Lets take this black and white dichotomy in a literal sense. Now I want to explain white, white is the reflection of the entire visible spectrum. I have no need what so ever to understand it's opposite black is the absorption of the entire visible spectrum in order to understand white nor do I need to compare it to black in order to understand what white is.

Even if you can define joy without using a comparative or an opposite, if you didn't know sadness, how would you know you're joyful? you wouldn't be able to comprehend the emotion or mental state. That's why we need the balance of sadness, or anger, so that we have an understanding of joy, or happiness. You can't have one without the other.


As I mentioned above (which you seemed to have over looked) one does not need a negative emotion to compare a positive emotion to. You can simply compare higher or lower degrees of the positive emotions.
MageGrayWolf
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MageGrayWolf
9,462 posts
Farmer

When communism is eradicated, we'll be in a perfect world.


If deployed in an environment where resources weren't an issue such a system actually could work pretty well.
Highfire
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Highfire
3,025 posts
Nomad

The reason for this is because without an opposite, it simply can't exist. For something to exist, it needs an opposite. I know this because of the above mentioned reasons.


Then should I raise that for each person I love shall be a person I hate? Because that doesn't add up.

There need not be a balance -- however, it certainly helps to have negativity be more 'welcome', for some people.

For the world to be a perfect one, the negativity would need to stem from the idea of wanting progress -- and the negativity will serve as a motivation for the people to do what they can to approach that goal.
Where frivolous arguments will decay to a solid debate with base elements of the subject being apparently known, people using logic at their finest and morality at the apex of values for both parties.

Preferably, there wouldn't be much "active" negativity - people wouldn't take actions influenced by their anger, aside from trying to resolve the issue of what is angering them in the best way they can (i.e Punching a wall is not going to help you achieve that). It would be the views of the people that are negative, not the emotions that they're with, because I would hope this stands to truth in an ideal world:
"Honor virutis preamium" (Honour be the reward of virtue)

Do you just have a grudge against all people who actually believe in something?


Yeah, except I'll only present it when appropriate -- this counts as appropriate.

First off, I love how y'all turn this into a religious thing.


If this is a diatribe, should I just stop reading? There are legitimate points to note on religion when trying to state a perfect world, no?

It has nothing to do with religion.

Oh, it's a horrendously ignorant statement instead. If you're going to point the issue towards us "irresponsible humans", then that's even worse.

Heaven is a completely different set of parameters. Why? Because this world is a human- centered world. Heaven is a God- centered world.


Oh, you went there. /facedesk

You know that perfect idea of people using logic at their finest? Please try and do the same because -- for a fact -- you cannot prove that Heaven is even real, nevermind what it is centered on (that and Earth being human-centered? What?).

Yes, this is a religious thing, because religion has influenced countless people and a lot of it not even for the better.

Not all of it is the peoples' fault either -- it was indoctrination based on a firm set of beliefs based on absolute FAITH. Of course, some person came up with it because (likely explanation) it explained some things that they couldn't at the time (or, it was a book to provide a set of morals for people).

Does that mean they're right in believing it? No. It means that when they were not surrounded by the facts we know with the evidence supporting it they had nothing else to go to. It was illogical to deter from the path they chose because no one else did, either.

you wouldn't be able to comprehend the emotion or mental state.


I'm quite sure that people can just do so naturally. It's not really a "thing-with-a-soul" or "human" characteristic -- emotions are like instincts, which is why strong emotions can make it more difficult to control one self. It's innate, and natural.

At least, that would make sense. Of course, neither of us have the proof to back this up and probably never will because all people have suffered to some degree (any we could find, probably).

Also, if you've already experienced anger and thus gained an idea of joy -- why would you ever need to be angry again? You wouldn't be, willingly.

- H
mordecai1031
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mordecai1031
156 posts
Nomad

There can be no perfect world. for a world to be perfect, everyones lives would have to be perfect. everything about everything would have to be perfect. since no one is perfect, a possibility of a perfect world is beyond hope. we just have to make due with what we have now.

mordecai1031
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mordecai1031
156 posts
Nomad

@31 ooh look, a reason why we cant have a perfect world. people like you! if you're going to troll, at least put a little more effort into it. you make the troll community dissapointed

DSM
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DSM
1,303 posts
Nomad

There can be no perfect world. for a world to be perfect, everyones lives would have to be perfect. everything about everything would have to be perfect. since no one is perfect, a possibility of a perfect world is beyond hope. we just have to make due with what we have now.


whats wrong with our current world? what is imperfect about this world we live in? If you ask me, then our world is perfect.
For the sake of discussion, then I would like to ask, whats make our world imperfect?
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