ForumsWEPRWorld too Overpopulated

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Cheeseman298
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Cheeseman298
118 posts
Nomad

Is the world too overpopulated? I was thinking and that may be the reason food prices may be rising and will continue to rise.

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Strop
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Strop
10,816 posts
Bard

UN Chief Ban Ki Moon just highlighted your concerns precisely- he has recently said the following:

1) At current population growth rates, if the human population is to survive, international food production needs to increase by another 50% by 2030.

2) Food export and trade tariffs need to be reduced/lifted. The price of the world staple, rice has risen a shocking 70% since the beginning of 2007.

I am not exactly sure what he means by 1) to be honest, but that in itself gives us another issue: how does one produce more food? By taking up more resources. Is the increase in production of food sustainable? No, it isn't.

When we start turning our attention to "we need to increase food production but we have to think about how to produce food" then you know the issue has become a really desperate one.

daswiftarrow
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daswiftarrow
873 posts
Nomad

well with the increasing need for food, that will be VERY true, but if there is too many people than there will not be enough space for everyone, so basicly, WARS everywhere fighting for land

thelistman
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thelistman
1,416 posts
Shepherd

No. People who study population trends say that the population will cap at around 12 billion, then take a sharp decline to the point where under-population may be a problem.

In third world nations, having children is actually profitable as the kids will start working young and bring in money. When nations industrialize, the cost of raising kids shoots through the roof. As more and more nations industrialize, people are going to have less children. In fact, in every Western country, the death rate is higher than the birth rate. In Germany, Russia, Bulgaria, and Hungary, the governments had offered thousands of dollars to women who had babies because of population decline. South America is close to hitting this point, and parts of Asia already have. Once these areas and Africa industrializes, the population will drop rapidly and underpopulation will be a problem.

quillandsaber
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quillandsaber
35 posts
Peasant

There's a problem on the smaller level; families that can't afford to support children have the most, and families that can support many children only have a few. Population and wealth, which can be translated to access to food, are grossly misapportioned.

Strop
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Strop
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Bard

Thanks for that thelistman. I'm well aware that neo-Malthusianism is not a popular rationale and now I know why. But I'd like some more detail:

Once these areas and Africa industrializes, the population will drop rapidly and underpopulation will be a problem.


Can you give me any projections on when this might become significant?
Strop
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Strop
10,816 posts
Bard

Also, what's the problem with 'underpopulation'?

I can see about this far:

If countries become affluent such that incentives to having children decreases, and the birthrate decreases, this causes disproportionality in the age groups. Labor workforce declines and infrastructure suffers as a result, making it more difficult on the whole. Whether this means collapse or consolidation I dunno, but perhaps the latter is more likely. That's where I foresee problems as they apparently are already surfacing.

You know, perhaps it might be a good thing to separate the notion of monogamous relationships out into its components- raising kids and having relationships. This human social institution never was all that suited to humans in the first place, and secondly it would go a long way to solving those 'incentive problems' that we've been looking at. Looking back at old models, reinstilling the value of 'child bearing as a civic duty' just might provide some basis for a more manageable population control.

But I anticipate much opposition from Family First groups.

Carlie
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Carlie
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Blacksmith

Also, what's the problem with 'underpopulation'?

Only to the point where you get a bottleneck, which starts to harbor certain undesirable traits. Of course that would be EXTREME underpopulation.
Strop
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Strop
10,816 posts
Bard

What do you mean by 'bottleneck'?

And, interestingly, what would you define as an 'undesirable trait'?

Carlie
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Carlie
6,823 posts
Blacksmith

I mean a genetic bottleneck, where there are very few mated pairs. And undesirable traits such as genetic abnormalities, recessive diseases that would get concentrated through only a few individuals.

Strop
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Strop
10,816 posts
Bard

Ahar, sweet, I thought so. Figured we oughta make it clear to everybody, though.

And yes...unless we experienced a nuclear holocaust that blew most humans away and left the rest in a post-apocalyptic wasteland...yeah. I guess that's highly unlikely :P

Like the end of the Neon-Genesis Evangelion films. It almost goes without saying: "My god, that was whacked out."

RsC
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RsC
424 posts
Shepherd

well i'll admit that the world gets pretty full.
but i don't think food will be an problem now, maybe later but iam not sure.
i even watched an programm about cloning animals too stop the hunger in africa and overpopulated cities.
the cloning is working for 15% they said.
but still its not good enough and it cost alot money too clone an animal so i think the problem isn't gone be so bad at all if the cloning works an full 100%.
next they wanted too try cloning humans but i rather keep it on animals because cloning humans won't help an thing too the foodproblem, if there's gone be one.

Carlie
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Carlie
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Blacksmith

Unless we push global climate change to its limits and have a consequence such as The Day After Tomorrow. Which actually is pretty accurate to what will happen. Granted it won't happen over the span of 3 months or whatever... but we are totally gonna screw up Earth's weather patterns through the shut down of the thermohaline circulation belt, and tons of people are gonna get wiped out. Fo sho!

Carlie
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Carlie
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Blacksmith

but then we were overdue for some sudden tectonic shifts, so it's inevitable.

Noooooo not yet!! I am living directly on the San Andreas fault right now... and it hasn't gone since 1906. Well due for the next one. Kinda freaks me out, not gonna lie. But I am moving in a week, so if it happens hopefully it won't happen before then!


I'm not the environmental expert- are the two statements above actually related?

Which statements are you referring to?
Strop
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Strop
10,816 posts
Bard

A ton of people seem to already be getting wiped out these days...but then we were overdue for some sudden tectonic shifts, so it's inevitable.

I'm not the environmental expert- are the two statements above actually related?

Alguzara
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Alguzara
519 posts
Nomad

So whats the world's cap. ?
Duh.

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