Wii U, Will it keep up? - Armor Games Community

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thebluerabbit

5,340 posts

Farmer

Posted June 4, '12 3:59am UTC

Hah, your right. But then again, when you walk into gamestop the guy at the desk doesn't say : THE NEW SPYRO IS OUT, he says THE NEW ASSASSINS CREED IS OUT! The majority wins.

lol!!! you want to tell me they didnt do the same with the wii console? with every sims or fifa game that came out. tekken as well?

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ihsahn

428 posts

Nomad

Posted June 4, '12 5:28am UTC

Well the Wii U Pro controller certainly quiets my fears that I'd have to handle that awkward tablet thing. Though I'll probably have one of those too, for certain games.

Not that excited about how symmetrical it is, though, I always thought Nintendo had done it beautifully and beat everybody with the GameCube controller, with analog sticks in different positions and different size buttons that you could discern by touch. That controller was class, it's a shame they have to make this one more like their competitors' to appeal to the serious gamer crowd that the Wii alienated.
And it seems a little too bulky to me.

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hawkeye

243 posts

Nomad

Posted June 4, '12 5:48am UTC

Anyways, have a new controller announcement picture (which hopefully won't randomly change from me hotlinking it)

So that controller will be the guests' controller and the host will have the tablet.

Not that excited about how symmetrical it is, though, I always thought Nintendo had done it beautifully and beat everybody with the GameCube controller, with analog sticks in different positions and different size buttons that you could discern by touch. That controller was class, it's a shame they have to make this one more like their competitors' to appeal to the serious gamer crowd that the Wii alienated.
And it seems a little too bulky to me.

I agree, It has been a while since we've had a new controller like N64 or GameCube. The old controllers were colorful; The Wii U has that tasteless white buttons and little light blue on some of the buttons. But Look at the Playstation consoles ALL the controllers look exactly the same. If they can add the Super Famicom button colors I might be interested.

[quote]Anyways, have a new controller announcement picture (which hopefully won't randomly change from me hotlinking it)[/quote]\r\n\r\nSo that controller will be the guests' controller and the host will have the tablet.\r\n\r\n[quote]Not that excited about how symmetrical it is, though, I always thought Nintendo had done it beautifully and beat everybody with the GameCube controller, with analog sticks in different positions and different size buttons that you could discern by touch. That controller was class, it's a shame they have to make this one more like their competitors' to appeal to the serious gamer crowd that the Wii alienated.\r\nAnd it seems a little too bulky to me.[/quote]\r\n\r\nI agree, It has been a while since we've had a new controller like N64 or GameCube. The old controllers were colorful; The Wii U has that tasteless white buttons and little light blue on some of the buttons. But Look at the Playstation consoles ALL the controllers look exactly the same. If they can add the Super Famicom button colors I might be interested.

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hawkeye

243 posts

Nomad

Posted June 4, '12 5:58am UTC

If you want more information on the controller check it out here
If you've never been updated on the controller since e3 2011, please make sure you watch this.

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hawkeye

243 posts

Nomad

Posted June 4, '12 6:00am UTC

If you want more information on the controller check it out here
If you've never been updated on the controller since e3 2011, please make sure you watch this.
(Gosh his accent is amazing)

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hawkeye

243 posts

Nomad

Posted June 4, '12 6:03am UTC

Sorry for the double post Something is wrong with the forums with me

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daleks

3,766 posts

Chancellor

Posted June 5, '12 5:19pm UTC

Just saw the Nintendo Press Conference. I actually think the Wii U looks better then when I first saw it. They seem to have lots of more adult games(like Mass Effect) coming to it. That should help it do well.

It seems really good for multiplayer gaming. Having one person against everyone else is an interesting idea. I think it will work well.

The problem I see is with the single player games. With the whole two screen thing you will have to split your attention. While you are looking at one screen something important could happen on the other and you could end up dead.

Overall though I think I might get one. Seems pretty fun.

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hawkeye

243 posts

Nomad

Posted June 5, '12 5:59pm UTC

Just saw the Nintendo Press Conference. I actually think the Wii U looks better then when I first saw it. They seem to have lots of more adult games(like Mass Effect) coming to it. That should help it do well.

It seems really good for multiplayer gaming. Having one person against everyone else is an interesting idea. I think it will work well.

The problem I see is with the single player games. With the whole two screen thing you will have to split your attention. While you are looking at one screen something important could happen on the other and you could end up dead.

Overall though I think I might get one. Seems pretty fun.

I just saw it too but what I meant with this post is that now we have Wii U and it's good enough to compete with Xbox and PS3 But what if there is PS4 and Xbox 720. Will Wii U stand a chance?

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miniphu

72 posts

Nomad

Posted June 5, '12 7:40pm UTC

Like someone mentioned earlier, I was a bit disappointed with the initial lineup of first-party games for the Wii-U. But it looks innovative and interesting for game developers to put in new game mechanics. I enjoyed seeing the concept of asymmetric gaming, with one overlord vs the hoard.

I'll take my normal approach to new consoles: let someone else get one and sample for myself how everything fits together. And as far as competing with PS4 and Xbox 720, I think that the target audiences are different. More importantly, they aren't coming out at the same time so each will enjoy its own success. I'm sure the critics will act the same way in a couple years for the other consoles.

Overall, I think that the Wii-U will be as successful as most Nintendo things are; that is quite successful.

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daleks

3,766 posts

Chancellor

Posted June 6, '12 12:01am UTC

But what if there is PS4 and Xbox 720. Will Wii U stand a chance?

The problem there seems to be is that Nintendo is not on the same pattern as Sony and Microsoft. Nintendo will come out with a system and it will be great.

Let's use the Wii U for the example. Compared to the 360 and the PS3 it is great. But then in 2ish years the PS4 and the 720 come out. The Wii U doesn't look as good anymore because the PS4 and the 720 have 2 more years of technology in them.

But then 2ish years after the 720 and the PS4 come out some new Nintendo device comes out and Nintendo looks great again.

Honestly if you look at this from a Nintendo business standpoint this is great. The new device comes out and everyone wants it because it is better then anything else that is out(and it is just new and people like new things). When Sony and Microsoft send out a new device it is roughly at the same time so there is a split by the people in what they buy.

I was a bit disappointed with the initial lineup of first-party games for the Wii-U.

I am sure that they will have better ones coming out that they didn't announce. They do have good 3rd party games though.

[quote]But what if there is PS4 and Xbox 720. Will Wii U stand a chance?[/quote]\r\nThe problem there seems to be is that Nintendo is not on the same pattern as Sony and Microsoft. Nintendo will come out with a system and it will be great. \r\n\r\nLet's use the Wii U for the example. Compared to the 360 and the PS3 it is great. But then in 2ish years the PS4 and the 720 come out. The Wii U doesn't look as good anymore because the PS4 and the 720 have 2 more years of technology in them. \r\n\r\nBut then 2ish years after the 720 and the PS4 come out some new Nintendo device comes out and Nintendo looks great again.\r\n\r\nHonestly if you look at this from a Nintendo business standpoint this is great. The new device comes out and everyone wants it because it is better then anything else that is out(and it is just new and people like new things). When Sony and Microsoft send out a new device it is roughly at the same time so there is a split by the people in what they buy.\r\n[quote] I was a bit disappointed with the initial lineup of first-party games for the Wii-U.[/quote]\r\nI am sure that they will have better ones coming out that they didn't announce. They do have good 3rd party games though.

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ihsahn

428 posts

Nomad

Posted June 6, '12 2:20am UTC

Well that conference was crap. I'm not looking forward to this at all.
Gee, the Wii U is getting titles that the PS3 and the Xbox already have. Its graphics are competitive with consoles that came out 6 years ago. The launch titles, excepting Pikmin 3 and ZombiU, are unexciting casual gamer stuff.

As a more serious gamer who's already been forced to get one of the competitors, hypothetically, why would I buy the Wii U? What's the differential for me? The controller?
They really didn't sell the tablet concept very well, it still looks too big and clunky and from what I hear from the game demos, it's possible to play well without the GamePad entirely. Plus it's not like everyone doesn't have smartphones and iPads and portable consoles already. It's hardly a revolution.

The Wii U has got one year before the real next gen consoles come out from both Sony and Microsoft, then it's just as obsolete as its predecessor.
Unless we see fantastic launch titles AND ample, creative third-party support and application of the tablet and motion concepts, this console is gonna bomb.
Hard.

Well that conference was crap. I'm not looking forward to this at all.\r\nGee, the Wii U is getting titles that the PS3 and the Xbox already have. Its graphics are competitive with consoles that came out 6 years ago. The launch titles, excepting Pikmin 3 and ZombiU, are unexciting casual gamer stuff.\r\n\r\nAs a more serious gamer who's already been forced to get one of the competitors, hypothetically, why would I buy the Wii U? What's the differential for me? The controller?\r\nThey really didn't sell the tablet concept very well, it still looks too big and clunky and from what I hear from the game demos, it's possible to play well without the GamePad entirely. Plus it's not like everyone doesn't have smartphones and iPads and portable consoles already. It's hardly a revolution.\r\n\r\nThe Wii U has got one year before the real next gen consoles come out from both Sony and Microsoft, then it's just as obsolete as its predecessor.\r\nUnless we see fantastic launch titles AND ample, creative third-party support and application of the tablet and motion concepts, this console is gonna bomb.\r\nHard.

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hawkeye

243 posts

Nomad

Posted June 6, '12 6:09am UTC

Well that conference was crap. I'm not looking forward to this at all.
Gee, the Wii U is getting titles that the PS3 and the Xbox already have. Its graphics are competitive with consoles that came out 6 years ago. The launch titles, excepting Pikmin 3 and ZombiU, are unexciting casual gamer stuff.

That conference was great but ihsahn was a little right however this makes it open for a new generation of gamers who never had an Xbox or a PS. The Wii U will attract more gamers and newcomers that never tried a game before. Don't forget that there will be two screens so there's definitely a HUGE improvement in gaming technology. Games aren't only about the graphics and that what annoys me. People began to care more about the graphics and less about the gaming. Those games mentioned in the conference were just the games will be coming with the Wii U or at least a month after the release of the Wii U. You never know what might come next for the Wii U.

One thing that Nintendo is doing wrong is the NEW super mario brothers series... Isn't it enough <b>NEW?!</b> Cut me a break!

You know know how gaming can be with two screens. The Wii U can also act like the Apple TV where you show things from youtube and other stuff on your TV by sending it. So it's definitely a great game console and I'm looking forward to it.

--Hawkeye

[quote]Well that conference was crap. I'm not looking forward to this at all.\r\nGee, the Wii U is getting titles that the PS3 and the Xbox already have. Its graphics are competitive with consoles that came out 6 years ago. The launch titles, excepting Pikmin 3 and ZombiU, are unexciting casual gamer stuff.[/quote]That conference was great but ihsahn was a little right however this makes it open for a new generation of gamers who never had an Xbox or a PS. The Wii U will attract more gamers and newcomers that never tried a game before. Don't forget that there will be two screens so there's definitely a HUGE improvement in gaming technology. Games aren't only about the graphics and that what annoys me. People began to care more about the graphics and less about the gaming. Those games mentioned in the conference were just the games will be coming with the Wii U or at least a month after the release of the Wii U. You never know what might come next for the Wii U. \r\n\r\nOne thing that Nintendo is doing wrong is the NEW super mario brothers series... Isn't it enough <b>NEW?!</b> Cut me a break!\r\n\r\nYou know know how gaming can be with two screens. The Wii U can also act like the Apple TV where you show things from youtube and other stuff on your TV by sending it. So it's definitely a great game console and I'm looking forward to it.\r\n\r\n--Hawkeye

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ihsahn

428 posts

Nomad

Posted June 6, '12 6:43am UTC

The Wii U will attract more gamers and newcomers that never tried a game before.

The Wii has already tapped that market. It was successful because it had little precedent. You're not gonna convince casual gamers to buy another console in mass. They're not people who often buy games, by definition, hence there's only so much money you can get from them.
Especially when the Wii U is so close to graphical obsolescence and the PS3 and Xbox already offer well-established, extensive, exclusive game libraries.

It just doesn't compete, all it has going is the controller, the appeal of which you're quite frankly overestimating. We have tablets already. We have portable consoles.

What we don't have is two sets of eyes with which to look at two different screens.

Games aren't only about the graphics and that what annoys me.

Here's what you need to understand about the graphical/technical gap between the Wii and the others: when people complain about it, they're not complaining that their games don't look as good as they do on their PS3.
They're complaining that developers don't care enough to make a lesser version for the Wii, resulting in dismal third party support and a reduced game library, because:

1. The stronger consoles do, indeed, play better. They render superior landscapes, can deal with more complex gameplay mechanics, allow for more detail to be shown in game. The Wii doesn't have Fallout, BioShock, Assassin's Creed, GTA and that sort of games because it can't deal with them. Soon it'll be the Wii U that's getting shafted because it can't compete with the Xbox 720 and the PS4. As a result,
2. The hardcore gamer crowd that buys that sort of advanced game flocks to the stronger consoles, and
3. Few people want to make games for Nintendo's weird new control schemes because it's hard, there's little return and there's no reason why they should - old school controls are still very popular.

Which brings me to another point...

Don't forget that there will be two screens so there's definitely a HUGE improvement in gaming technology.

You know know how gaming can be with two screens.

Because that innovative control worked so well for the Wii, right?
Wrong.

The only games that implemented the motion controls to an interesting degree were either too gimmicky or first-party titles - or both.
Seeing as there is no reason for a mass gamer migration to the Wii U, and certainly not one of serious gamers with actual standards, my lookout for third-party enthusiasm is not terribly positive.

Get this: I want to be wrong. I love Nintendo from the bottom of my heart. The Nintendo 64 was a magnificent console. I had the GC and the Wii and had great fun with them. Zelda and Metroid are endlessly dear to me. Mario is a like an extension of me.

But they need to get their **** straight. This isn't looking terrific.

Maybe Nintendo will be smart enough and secure great third-party games that make unique, groundbreaking use of the tablet controller.
I loved the way it was implemented with ZombiU, to be honest. Suspenseful. And with Pikmin 3, it opens up "tactical" micromanagement options.
Maybe it could work with RTS sort of games. There's great possibilities. I'm open to it. But what I'm saying it is that at least to me, Nintendo still hasn't sold this controller as the revolutionary step it's supposed to be. And if it stays that way, the console is going to bomb in the eyes of consumer and developer.

[quote]The Wii U will attract more gamers and newcomers that never tried a game before.[/quote]\r\nThe Wii has already tapped that market. It was successful because it had little precedent. You're not gonna convince casual gamers to buy [i]another[/i] console in mass. They're not people who often buy games, by definition, hence there's only so much money you can get from them. \r\nEspecially when the Wii U is so close to graphical obsolescence and the PS3 and Xbox already offer well-established, extensive, exclusive game libraries.\r\n\r\nIt just doesn't compete, all it has going is the controller, the appeal of which you're quite frankly overestimating. We have tablets already. We have portable consoles.\r\n\r\nWhat we don't have is two sets of eyes with which to look at two different screens. \r\n[quote]Games aren't only about the graphics and that what annoys me.[/quote]\r\nHere's what you need to understand about the graphical/technical gap between the Wii and the others: when people complain about it, they're not complaining that their games don't look as good as they do on their PS3.\r\nThey're complaining that developers don't care enough to make a lesser version for the Wii, resulting in dismal third party support and a reduced game library, because:\r\n\r\n1. The stronger consoles do, indeed, play better. They render superior landscapes, can deal with more complex gameplay mechanics, allow for more detail to be shown in game. The Wii doesn't have Fallout, BioShock, Assassin's Creed, GTA and that sort of games because it can't deal with them. Soon it'll be the Wii U that's getting shafted because it can't compete with the Xbox 720 and the PS4. As a result,\r\n2. The hardcore gamer crowd that buys that sort of advanced game flocks to the stronger consoles, and\r\n3. Few people want to make games for Nintendo's weird new control schemes because it's hard, there's little return and there's no reason why they should - old school controls are still very popular.\r\n\r\nWhich brings me to another point...\r\n[quote]Don't forget that there will be two screens so there's definitely a HUGE improvement in gaming technology.\r\n\r\nYou know know how gaming can be with two screens.\r\n[/quote]\r\nBecause that innovative control worked so well for the Wii, right?\r\nWrong.\r\n\r\nThe only games that implemented the motion controls to an interesting degree were either too gimmicky or first-party titles - or both.\r\nSeeing as there is no reason for a mass gamer migration to the Wii U, and certainly not one of serious gamers with actual standards, my lookout for third-party enthusiasm is not terribly positive.\r\n\r\nGet this: I want to be wrong. I love Nintendo from the bottom of my heart. The Nintendo 64 was a magnificent console. I had the GC and the Wii and had great fun with them. Zelda and Metroid are endlessly dear to me. Mario is a like an extension of me.\r\n\r\nBut they need to get their **** straight. This isn't looking terrific.\r\n\r\nMaybe Nintendo will be smart enough and secure great third-party games that make unique, groundbreaking use of the tablet controller.\r\nI loved the way it was implemented with ZombiU, to be honest. Suspenseful. And with Pikmin 3, it opens up "tactical" micromanagement options.\r\nMaybe it could work with RTS sort of games. There's great possibilities. I'm open to it. But what I'm saying it is that at least to me, Nintendo still hasn't sold this controller as the revolutionary step it's supposed to be. And if it stays that way, the console is going to bomb in the eyes of consumer and developer.

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ihsahn

428 posts

Nomad

Posted June 6, '12 6:57am UTC

Frankly, now that you got me talking about it, I'm considering the myriad Real-Time Strategy game possibilities that the tablet controller opens up.

Controlling units with touch, micromanaging with use of a map screen, while the real action is right there on your TV...
Imagine StarCraft on your TV, crazy high-def, and can issue commands to individual units, pan the map, manage army creation on your GamePad? Figure out a way to make it intuitive enough that you can afford not to look at the Pad, and you're golden.

No console has ever managed to do the RTS very well. The Wii U could.
But will it? Will developers see the potential? Will there be a market, when the traditional RTS players already have PCs and the hardcore gamers don't look at the Wii seriously?
I worry about that.

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KentyBK

566 posts

Nomad

Posted June 6, '12 10:39pm UTC

Gee, and here I thought I was the only guy that tends to rant.

Anyways, where do I even begin with this one?

First off, anyone that is arguing hardware capabilities of the Wii U, compared to Next-Gen or even current gen, is on the completely wrong track. Nobody seems to realise this, but better hardware does not help sell your console. In fact, looking at all the generations, you'll find that the most successful consoles are *always* the ones with the seemingly worst hardware. The only notable exception to this is the Genesis, but that whole story is a little more complicated (and totally not the focus of this thread, so meh ;P).

Note: I'm not saying this as a means of defense. I'm just saying the Wii U is terrible for completely different reasons.

Honestly if you look at this from a Nintendo business standpoint this is great. The new device comes out and everyone wants it because it is better then anything else that is out(and it is just new and people like new things). When Sony and Microsoft send out a new device it is roughly at the same time so there is a split by the people in what they buy.

No it's not. Nintendo has abandoned both their most successful handheld and one of their most successful consoles (the DS and Wii respectively) and so far the 3DS has not performed like they expected it too. Now they have no console games to push and have to depend on the not exactly super amazing performance of the 3DS until the Wii U launches.

So far it seems their plan has pretty much backfired.

I am sure that they will have better ones coming out that they didn't announce. They do have good 3rd party games though.

No they don't. Why would they not announce those games at the most important conference of the year if they secretly have them somewhere? This was their only good chance to sell people on the Wii U and they failed.

As for third party games, most of them just seem to be enhanced ports. Nobody is going to bother buying a Wii U just for those.

The Wii U will attract more gamers and newcomers that never tried a game before.

No it won't. Nintendo didn't even manage to make it clear the Wii U is a completely seperate console. There's a CNN article (which is now corrected) that initially called the Wii U an accessory to the Wii.

Don't forget that there will be two screens so there's definitely a HUGE improvement in gaming technology.

Two screens! A never before-seen c.....

http://cdn.dualshockers.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/NDS_Nintendo_DS_Lite_2.jpg

Oh.

You never know what might come next for the Wii U.

Explain why they didn't announce them to build up hype then. Everyone seems to think Nintendo would just love wasting everyones time at the conference and not announce big upcoming games they have planned.

The Wii has already tapped that market.

And they have to keep selling to this market in order to stay relevant.

You're not gonna convince casual gamers to buy another console in mass.

Yes you can. You just have to actually start making games for them. After all, many people bought a Wii AND a DS, no?

Because that innovative control worked so well for the Wii, right?
Wrong.

The only games that implemented the motion controls to an interesting degree were either too gimmicky or first-party titles - or both.

The motion controls were completely wasted potential in general. And that includes both first-party and second party games. There would've been no need if Nintendo had actually followed up on motion controls in a meaningful way instead of abandoning them half-way through.

Seeing as there is no reason for a mass gamer migration to the Wii U, and certainly not one of serious gamers with actual standards, my lookout for third-party enthusiasm is not terribly positive.

Yes, because not playing the new AAA game of the week means you have no standards.

The Nintendo 64 was a magnificent console.

You realise the only thing worse for Nintendo are the Gamecube and the Virtual Boy?

No console has ever managed to do the RTS very well. The Wii U could.
But will it? Will developers see the potential? Will there be a market, when the traditional RTS players already have PCs and the hardcore gamers don't look at the Wii seriously?

You would need to dumb down the interface so it's all playable with the touch pad. Also, you lose keyboard macros.

So you'd either have a simple, but dumbed down control interface, or one like on the PC, that'd end up being needlessly complicated to be touch compatible.

So in conclusion, will the Wii U sell? I'd say yes, because after all, it'll launch with a 2D Mario game.

Will it be a Wii-like success? Definitely not. If anything, I'd say it'll be more Gamecube than Wii-esque.

Gee, and here I thought I was the only guy that tends to rant.\r\n\r\nAnyways, where do I even begin with this one?\r\n\r\nFirst off, anyone that is arguing hardware capabilities of the Wii U, compared to Next-Gen or even current gen, is on the completely wrong track. Nobody seems to realise this, but [b]better hardware does not help sell your console.[/b] In fact, looking at all the generations, you'll find that the most successful consoles are *always* the ones with the seemingly worst hardware. The only notable exception to this is the Genesis, but that whole story is a little more complicated (and totally not the focus of this thread, so meh ;P).\r\n\r\nNote: I'm not saying this as a means of defense. I'm just saying the Wii U is terrible for completely different reasons.\r\n\r\n[quote]Honestly if you look at this from a Nintendo business standpoint this is great. The new device comes out and everyone wants it because it is better then anything else that is out(and it is just new and people like new things). When Sony and Microsoft send out a new device it is roughly at the same time so there is a split by the people in what they buy.[/quote]\r\n\r\nNo it's not. Nintendo has abandoned both their most successful handheld and one of their most successful consoles (the DS and Wii respectively) and so far the 3DS has not performed like they expected it too. Now they have no console games to push and have to depend on the not exactly super amazing performance of the 3DS until the Wii U launches.\r\n\r\nSo far it seems their plan has pretty much backfired.\r\n\r\n[quote]I am sure that they will have better ones coming out that they didn't announce. They do have good 3rd party games though.[/quote]\r\n\r\nNo they don't. Why would they not announce those games at the most important conference of the year if they secretly have them somewhere? This was their only good chance to sell people on the Wii U and they failed.\r\n\r\nAs for third party games, most of them just seem to be enhanced ports. Nobody is going to bother buying a Wii U just for those.\r\n\r\n[quote]The Wii U will attract more gamers and newcomers that never tried a game before.[/quote]\r\n\r\nNo it won't. Nintendo didn't even manage to make it clear the Wii U is a completely seperate console. There's a CNN article (which is now corrected) that initially called the Wii U an accessory to the Wii.\r\n\r\n[quote]Don't forget that there will be two screens so there's definitely a HUGE improvement in gaming technology.[/quote]\r\n\r\nTwo screens! A never before-seen c.....\r\n[img]http://cdn.dualshockers.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/NDS_Nintendo_DS_Lite_2.jpg[/img]\r\nOh.\r\n\r\n[quote]You never know what might come next for the Wii U.[/quote]\r\n\r\nExplain why they didn't announce them to build up hype then. Everyone seems to think Nintendo would just love wasting everyones time at the conference and not announce big upcoming games they have planned.\r\n\r\n[quote]The Wii has already tapped that market.[/quote]\r\n\r\nAnd they have to keep selling to this market in order to stay relevant.\r\n\r\n[quote]You're not gonna convince casual gamers to buy another console in mass.[/quote]\r\n\r\nYes you can. You just have to actually start making games for them. After all, many people bought a Wii AND a DS, no?\r\n\r\n[quote]Because that innovative control worked so well for the Wii, right?\r\nWrong.\r\n\r\nThe only games that implemented the motion controls to an interesting degree were either too gimmicky or first-party titles - or both.[/quote]\r\n\r\nThe motion controls were completely wasted potential in general. And that includes both first-party and second party games. There would've been no need if Nintendo had actually followed up on motion controls in a meaningful way instead of abandoning them half-way through.\r\n\r\n[quote]Seeing as there is no reason for a mass gamer migration to the Wii U, and certainly not one of serious gamers with actual standards, my lookout for third-party enthusiasm is not terribly positive.[/quote]\r\n\r\nYes, because not playing the new AAA game of the week means you have no standards.\r\n\r\n[quote]The Nintendo 64 was a magnificent console.[/quote]\r\n\r\nYou realise the only thing worse for Nintendo are the Gamecube and the Virtual Boy?\r\n\r\n[quote]No console has ever managed to do the RTS very well. The Wii U could.\r\nBut will it? Will developers see the potential? Will there be a market, when the traditional RTS players already have PCs and the hardcore gamers don't look at the Wii seriously?[/quote]\r\n\r\nYou would need to dumb down the interface so it's all playable with the touch pad. Also, you lose keyboard macros.\r\n\r\nSo you'd either have a simple, but dumbed down control interface, or one like on the PC, that'd end up being needlessly complicated to be touch compatible.\r\n\r\n\r\nSo in conclusion, will the Wii U sell? I'd say yes, because after all, it'll launch with a 2D Mario game.\r\n\r\nWill it be a Wii-like success? Definitely not. If anything, I'd say it'll be more Gamecube than Wii-esque.

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