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ethan3300
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ethan3300
100 posts
Shepherd

What are your thoughts on the bill Obama passed that allowed 800,000 illegal aliens to come to america

  • 76 Replies
pirateplatypusgames
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pirateplatypusgames
37 posts
Nomad

My great-grandfather did not travel across 4,000 miles of the Atlantic ocean to see this country overrun by immigrants. He did it because he killed a man back in Ireland.

-Stephen Colbert
dair5
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dair5
3,371 posts
Shepherd

For a bunch of criminals from another country?


Did you read nicho's links? link Those are the kind of people we're making legal. I don't see a problem with that. And neighboorhods with illegals are usally pretty low on crime. This is because they're so afraid of any government attention since they don't want to be deported. They also need to pay taxes, but don't get tax returns they should. Again, beacause they're afraid of deportion. This helps them, and us because we get people like her.
dair5
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dair5
3,371 posts
Shepherd

So you are saying that it is good to let criminals in the country


Okay okay. I'm sorry I really need to speak on this. Why in the world do you assume imigrants are criminals? Besides these are kids we're talking about. I've never meet an illegal kid who is a criminal.
314d1
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314d1
3,817 posts
Nomad

Did you read nicho's links? link Those are the kind of people we're making legal. I don't see a problem with that.


The people have already committed a crime, as they are in the United States illegally. Thus they are criminals, and not even from this country. Why should we give money to them?

And neighboorhods with illegals are usally pretty low on crime. This is because they're so afraid of any government attention since they don't want to be deported


So wouldn't this get rid of their fear, and thus their low crime rates? Why would you support a law that raises crime rates?

They also need to pay taxes, but don't get tax returns they should.


Since when do they pay taxes?

Again, beacause they're afraid of deportion.


I don't see the problem. So we can get free money from criminals (According to you), they have lower crime rates, so what would either of them gain by making them legal? Making them legal would raise the crime rates and take money from the rest of the country.

Okay okay. I'm sorry I really need to speak on this


I can't hear you, you should try typing.

Why in the world do you assume imigrants are criminals?


I am not assuming immigrants are criminals. I am saying illegal immigrants are criminals. Which they are. By definition.

Besides these are kids we're talking about.


I didn't know a thirty year old man was a kid. This isn't children, this is people under thirty. Who have been here for five years. You would literally have to come over here in a cradle to be able to be a kid let in by this law.

Not to mention the fact that it is difficult to prove weather or not they have been here for five years, let alone weather they came when they where under sixteen or not.

I've never meet an illegal kid who is a criminal.


Do you even know what the world "Illegal" means?
EmperorPalpatine
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EmperorPalpatine
9,439 posts
Jester

Am I the only one who has heard of it?

I've heard of it.

Can you please tell me three things that the taxpayers use that illegal immigrants can use?

Public transportation, medical care/hospitals/clinics etc (they usually get deported afterward, but most of the costs get paid by taxes because the patients don't have insurance), public utilities.

They also need to pay taxes

Sales tax.

people like her.

She graduated from college, but decided not to take the naturalization test?
dair5
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dair5
3,371 posts
Shepherd

The people have already committed a crime, as they are in the United States illegally.


So thats why you want to treat them as criminals who intentally harm other people? Because they wanted to do better and have a better life for their kids?

Do you even know what the world "Illegal" means?


I don't understand how a child who was brought over by their parents automatically is a criminal. They didn't do anything they weren't supposed to.

I am not assuming immigrants are criminals. I am saying illegal immigrants are criminals. Which they are. By definition.


Yes I get that. I'm sayong they shouldn't be. They haven't really done anything wrong here. All they did was get here. They didn't commit any other crime. They tend to be harmless.

Since when do they pay taxes?


Here

Making them legal would raise the crime rates and take money from the rest of the country.


How would it raise crime rates? They're not going to become bad people just because they can. (And they can't. They can still go to jail like everyone else.)

I didn't know a thirty year old man was a kid. This isn't children, this is people under thirty. Who have been here for five years. You would literally have to come over here in a cradle to be able to be a kid let in by this law.


Either way, most haven't done harmed anyone by being illegal. Should we keep them illgal just because it benefits us? Is that fair? It's definitly not fair to the illgals who are still kids, and yes there plenty of them. It's really not as crazy as you think to come over the border as a baby.
314d1
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314d1
3,817 posts
Nomad

Public transportation


Your taxes pay for buses? I guess school buses, but they are not exactly used by to many immigrants.

medical care/hospitals/clinics etc (they usually get deported afterward, but most of the costs get paid by taxes because the patients don't have insurance)


It is a rarity for them to get injured badly enough to risk deportation, how often does this happen?

public utilities.


You city folk and your public utilities. What are public utilities? Restrooms?

Sales tax.


Sales....Tax? Such strange taxes you city folk pay. I forgot other people still had those.

Lets look at the facts. Most illegal immigrants are getting less then a dollar a day. How much sales tax can you get off of that?
314d1
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314d1
3,817 posts
Nomad

Ninjad me.

So thats why you want to treat them as criminals who intentally harm other people? Because they wanted to do better and have a better life for their kids?


No, because they committed a crime. If your selling crack to have a better life for your kids, then you are still a criminal.

I don't understand how a child who was brought over by their parents automatically is a criminal. They didn't do anything they weren't supposed to.


Yes they did. I don't see how you could say otherwise. Entering another country's borders without permission is illegal in the modern world. Living there is an even bigger crime. And they lived in a country illegally, a crime.

Yes I get that. I'm sayong they shouldn't be. They haven't really done anything wrong here. All they did was get here. They didn't commit any other crime. They tend to be harmless.


"Their only crime is violating U.S law"?

Here


And how exactly do they get that information? Any government investigation would end with "...And then we deported them all". Basically the whole article says "And they probably pay taxes. Well most of them probably pay taxes. Probably. It is believed that they probably might maybe pay some taxes. Maybe.". Basically this is the same as saying "I am not saying Obama was born in Kenya, but where is the birth certificate!?". It is unbaked and filled with wild mass guessing.

How would it raise crime rates? They're not going to become bad people just because they can. (And they can't. They can still go to jail like everyone else.)


Lets look at what you said:

1. Illegal immigrants have lower crime rates
2. The lower crime rates is do to fear of deportation

Is that not true? So logically:

3. Fear of deportation is removed
4. No difference between the rest of the population
5. Crime rises to meat the rest of the population.

You specifically said that they had less crime because they where illegal immigrants, or are you saying that only legal law abiding citizens are willing to break the law to get what they want?

Either way, most haven't done harmed anyone by being illegal.


Then why would we change their illegal status? After all, apparently there is no harm for us leaving them lack that.

Should we keep them illgal just because it benefits us?


Why not? That is generally how politics works.

Is that fair?


"Fair"? If you wanted fair, the wealth would have to be distributed greatly, all jobs would be payed the same, and the whole world would have to be united under a single government. Politics don't go "Hey, is this new tax fair?", and it would be insane to think they did.

It's definitly not fair to the illgals who are still kids, and yes there plenty of them.


Why not? They broke the rules. When you break rules, you are punished. That is fair. Would it be fair to let them in, just because they are kids?

It's really not as crazy as you think to come over the border as a baby.


I am interested in how you found that topic. Did you go around and look at all the babies, poke at their stomach, and casually ask the mom in Spanish weather or not their baby was legal? Does the government keep tabs on babies deported?

Now lets say that this law did effect the child who was brought into America on their first birthday and managed to live to five, the youngest possible by this law. How would they get the benefits, since their parents would still be illegal? Do you leave their families to become citizens? To you want to tear kids from their parents?
EmperorPalpatine
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EmperorPalpatine
9,439 posts
Jester

So thats why you want to treat them as criminals who intentally harm other people?

It has nothing to do with their potential intentions. It is a crime to enter another country unlawfully.

They didn't do anything they weren't supposed to.

Ignorance of the law is no excuse. In Japan from the 1600s up to the 1850s, entering the country as a foreigner was punnishable by death.

All they did was get here.

There is a right way and a wrong way. They took the wrong way.

Lets look at the facts. Most illegal immigrants are getting less then a dollar a day. How much sales tax can you get off of that?

Did I say it was much? Negligible, but it's still a tax that they pay.

It is a rarity for them to get injured badly enough to risk deportation

Usually it's when it's not their choice to go there. If there's a car accident or a fire or a natural disaster, they're taken to a hospital when paramedics arrive.

Your taxes pay for buses? I guess school buses, but they are not exactly used by to many immigrants.

Yes, taxes pay for buses. Also rail systems. Fares pay the money back over time, but the initial costs are paid by taxes. In some places, using public transport is 'free' (funded through taxes and donations).
dair5
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dair5
3,371 posts
Shepherd

Why not? They broke the rules. When you break rules, you are punished. That is fair. Would it be fair to let them in, just because they are kids?


It's not fair because their parents brought them here. Did you expect them to tell their parents no that they were going to stay home? Or maybe you mean kids who actually come here by themselves or with other kids? You'd really send 10, 12 year olds who risked their lives to come here back?

Did you go around and look at all the babies, poke at their stomach, and casually ask the mom in Spanish weather or not their baby was legal?


I know people like that. Who were brought here as babies.

"Fair"? If you wanted fair, the wealth would have to be distributed greatly, all jobs would be payed the same, and the whole world would have to be united under a single government. Politics don't go "Hey, is this new tax fair?", and it would be insane to think they did.


So... you don't want fair? Because this seems like the fairest solution right now.

Do you leave their families to become citizens? To you want to tear kids from their parents?


I'm pretty sure parents can take their children with them if they want to. I don't know of any law that says they won't be able to. They would still be citizens of their previous country you know.
314d1
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314d1
3,817 posts
Nomad

Yes, taxes pay for buses. Also rail systems. Fares pay the money back over time, but the initial costs are paid by taxes


Really? I didn't no that. We are not much for public transportation up here.

Did I say it was much? Negligible, but it's still a tax that they pay.


Fine. So they pay pocket change taxes for the products they buy legally in the United states. Is that a closer statement?

Usually it's when it's not their choice to go there. If there's a car accident or a fire or a natural disaster, they're taken to a hospital when paramedics arrive.


I can't find anything stating that, or statistics on how much it costs. Do you have any link I could look at?

Yes, taxes pay for buses. Also rail systems. Fares pay the money back over time, but the initial costs are paid by taxes. In some places, using public transport is 'free' (funded through taxes and donations).


So they use tax sponsored public transportation...that they help pay for? Using fares? They may not help with the taxes, but they also don't get any money back...
nichodemus
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nichodemus
14,991 posts
Grand Duke

mmigration policies have been much harsher than even Bush's; he has already deported more people in his first year in office than Bush did in his final year in office. So instead of being a splendid ignoramus, do some bloody research. Stop your incredibly moronic and baseless accusations just out of pure prejudice. It's ok to pick faults through an objective discussion, but to do so because he's liberal, shows how much of a pathetic person one is.

nichodemus
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nichodemus
14,991 posts
Grand Duke

First part got chopped up on my phone.

* A quick bit of research shows that Obama's immigration*

You all know who that was directed towards.

EmperorPalpatine
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EmperorPalpatine
9,439 posts
Jester

I can't find anything stating that, or statistics on how much it costs. Do you have any link I could look at?

From 5 seconds of searching, link,
more reliable link

They may not help with the taxes, but they also don't get any money back...

They get to use the services without paying 'their fair share' of the cost.
314d1
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314d1
3,817 posts
Nomad

Where did you train? Your Ninja skills are impressive.

It's not fair because their parents brought them here.


Oh, their parents brought them here! Of course that is an excuse for a crime! I forgot that one clause in article F subsection 4K3. "If your a kid, and your parents make you do the crime, it is cool with us."

Did you expect them to tell their parents no that they were going to stay home?


From what I have heard on it, up here where we have about the same population that the plan is about to let in and no immigration problem, that is usually what happens. The workers risk their necks in America to send money back to Mexico, which makes a lot more since then risking little kids lives, doesn't it?

Do you expect the law does not effect them, because there "Parents made them do it"? I hate to break it to you, but law does not work that way.

Or maybe you mean kids who actually come here by themselves or with other kids


It is irrelevant. They broke the law, either way.

You'd really send 10, 12 year olds who risked their lives to come here back?


They would have had to come over here while they where five or seven respectively, it would be pretty impressive for them to do that themselves, for the law to take effect.

And of course I would. Would you put an eleven year old pimp in prison? What about a drug dealer? They are all criminals and must face the consequence of the crimes. Regardless if they are children or not.

So... you don't want fair? Because this seems like the fairest solution right now.


Fair? They broke the law every day for five years, and it would be fair to let them go because? I don't see how this is fair. Sending them back, as the law demands, would be fair.

Lets bring this down in scale. Lets say that there is a rich man with a nice big house. And you want to live there, since it is a nice place. There are two ways you can get in. One, you can go up to the man and ask "Can I live here?" in witch he will let you, giving you all the benefits of living in this house in return for following some house rules and initiation process. Or you can climb in the window and hide whenever he comes around. Which is illegal, of course. So if you found a man trying to live in your house, wouldn't you call the police to get him out of it? Even if it was a child?

Letting criminals go free is by no means fair. Please explain your thought process.

I'm pretty sure parents can take their children with them if they want to. I don't know of any law that says they won't be able to. They would still be citizens of their previous country you know.



You don't seem to get what I am saying.

Lets say that there is a five year old kid who came here as a baby. His parents came in as they where twenty, each. Under this law, the five year old would become a citizen once he met the requirements. But the parents would not.

So how is this law going to help children at all? Their parents are still illegal. They can't even go to the office to get registered as a citizen, since their parents would have to take them there. This will only effect illegals over eighteen, or it will mean that the parents would have to leave the country, since this law does not help them.
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