Forums → The Tavern → One Dilly of a Pickle, ain't it?
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INTRODUCTION
Thread Background
Coming from a long-time lurker born in 2008, I have noticed that Armor Games is facing a recent "slump" of activity. In other terms, Armor Games is becoming inactive. In my quest for answers, I've contacted several Armor Games users, ranging from new users to veterans. Thinking that I gave people something to think about for the day, Ernie15 gave me a bold idea to convert these ideas into a thread where one can give his/her ideas on the matter instead of letting this issue be small-talk. In many's minds, this is an issue that needs to be addressed to immediately. There have been threads like this, but this is the central HUB of what we view of Armor Games today.
Armor Games, I give you The User's View.
Armor Games Background
AG3, a major update to the Armor Games world, has been in development for around 2 years. There are tons of beta testers for the website. Prior to and starting at the development of AG3, Armor Games was once a bustling "city," if you will, of ideas traveling by means of public forum posting to comments to one another, or "small talk." Many of these users have left for reasons we will discuss and are being replaced by users we will later discuss.
Staff Changes
Late 2011, Cormyn, a very popular admin, resigned from his duties and became a regular user. He was somewhat replaced with Justin Royster, aka username jroyster22.
Part 1: Cormyn
Cormyn was undoubtedly known for his ability to be publicly active within the community and was often described as strict. As strict as he was, he kept the trash out and helped shape our modern-day Armor Games. He wrote code for the community, laid down a lot of the rules, appointed moderators alongside the moderation team, and, short and sweet, held Armor Games together. In many people's opinions, he was the administrator's community face of Armor Games. Once Cormyn left, jroyster22, alongside his duties with AG3, became the one to contact if you needed help. Justin Royster had big shoes to fill, and so far, he's done a moderate job. He prefers to contact via email, taking away from that on-site communication charm. In my opinion, Justin Royster has been a little vague with his duties. I and others have complained that Armor Games needs a new head, and if Justin Royster was a little more open, we'd have that strong, great leader. I am not criticizing his work- I understand he's busy. I'm just asking that he showed a little more of his face.
Part 2: Inactivity
Sadly, many of Armor Games' moderators have been caught up with daily life to successfully fulfill their duties on a daily basis. Similarly, admins are busy preparing AG3 for its release and have a lot to do. I understand they have lives as well. Many other new members have complained that it is impossible to get in touch with anyone on the staff team. Cormyn had written moderator-selection software, and many are thinking, if it is still available after Cormyn's resignation, perhaps it could be used to find another addition to the moderator team. Freakenstein has been a fantastic addition, but I feel as though we need more. I'm not going to name names because I respect what our moderators do; I feel as though we need more. Maybe it's time we eliminated the "small staff team" tradition for the time being until we recover. As for admins, we don't need a lot, but just one public face to get contact with would be fantastic.
Migration
I know AG3 is going to be very different. I know forum activity has sunk. I know your friends have left. Because of multiple things, many users, newbies and veterans alike, have moved on to different websites. This is not going to help our inactivity problem. It will only make it worse. I am not only asking you all to stay, but I am asking you to help out. We can't sit around and let our users leave. Part of it is our problem; we can make things interesting again. We can make people want to spend all of their time here. We can show people Armor Games is the best darn website out there!
Generation Transition
Jeol brought this to my attention and it struck me. What if the reason so many people are leaving is because they are older? Now, some people will never change, but others will grow and move on. And, who replaces them?
Part 1: Veterans
It's summer. You've finished school and want to enjoy the outdoors. You've finished school and have to work. You've finished school and want to try something new. Whatever it is, whether you've gotten too old for Armor Games, or have something else taking up your time, you can't visit your favorite website in the world. You know what? That's quite OK. Just remember to drop by once in a while and talk to your old friends. Many users are finding that they are having difficulties connecting with new people if they leave right away. Sadly, this leaves many users bored and craving for a good conversation.
Part 2: New Users
The size of Armor Games' user list is rising exponentially- it's skyrocketing! Most would think this would create more activity, wouldn't it? Frankly, no. Many games require an account for online saving to work, and the new generation replacing the previous one seems to be filled with people who join, stay active for a day, and quit dealing with the forums, leaving a large gap to be filled by no one.
Armor Games v3
As mentioned earlier, AG3 is being developed. By my count, there are currently 5 admins developing it. Unfortunately, users are complaining because there is little or no status updates on what's going on. Not to sound demanding, but more frequent updates could make the waiting all the easier. Also, the new achievement system may scare veterans who are used to and have gained recognition by the current AP system. AG3 will also result in a clean slate for the forums... By deleting all of the material there. Of course, much of the material is repeatable, but many veterans have good memories of posting here.
Conclusion
We've lost the face of the admins, Cormyn, and would like to have another public face again. Many moderators are busy with their lives and some more help would be fantastic. A lot of people have given up on Armor Games and have outright quit. Old faces are being replaced with people who aren't as devoted the site. AG3 is coming with big changes, but has gone very quiet recently.
~Salvidian
Those who contributed to this information in some way, shape, or form
-jeol
-Ernie15
-daleks
-Skeleton_Pilot
-Cenere
-GhostOfMatrix
-MrDayCee
-johnmerz
- 339 Replies
Failed post can be deleted.
A thought crossed my mind about AG3: Assuming they have ads on that site (I wouldn't know considering I use adblock) could they be making half of what they are now? At first I thought it could've been double of what their normal income could be, but I doubt many people browse and play games on the beta site. This could be a reason why they've been putting it off; to get more money.
Expanding the moderation team could solve both problems... hell, it might not, but at this point who could it hurt to try?
I don't know who posted this but I saw it on the previous page from skimming: You can't give those powers to just anyone. Look at what could happen: If a moderator were to go mad they could delete large amounts of threads and go on a banning rampage. It's no wonder they're so cautious of who to consider.
To be entirely fair on the part of "Their customers are the game playing ones": They come complaining to the community as well, and without a community admin, their problems can't be fixed quickly either. Hence why we get 30+ threads whenever a server go down or a game is removed without a word.
They would benefit from a community admin, and the rest of us would be more likely to recommend this site to our more gaming friends.
Given the trends over the past few years, it's not out of the question to claim so.
Communities are living things, they evolve and sadly, they die too, when the original habitants can no longer enjoy the community due to said changes.
At least we will have had a few good years, and a few years where we loudly complained.
When we get editing instead of html access, I will feel bad about this double post.
If a moderator were to go mad they could delete large amounts of threads and go on a banning rampage.
It could be hella funny, and the admins wouldn't bother fixing it.
Perhaps because we have good, responsible mods (and those who mightn't be aren't online anyway) the staff thinks we don't need anything but those working mules/dwarf/punbun/dragon.
I should have gone on a rampage while I had the chance.
We are the users who actually just hang out in the Forums and on other peoples' walls. The ones who really are the lifeblood of the company are the millions of others who play and keep the advertising companies coming back.
I never said I was talking about any one group of users. I was referring to the entire community. Not just the frequent forum users.
To reword a statement in my previous post:
All users are entitled to being informed about AGv3 development.
Is that better?
editing instead of html access
I think it's possible to have both, but the addition of editing would make a double post incorrect.
Perhaps because we have good, responsible mods (and those who mightn't be aren't online anyway) the staff thinks we don't need anything but those working mules/dwarf/punbun/dragon.
I should have gone on a rampage while I had the chance.
So you think power abuse by a mod would increase activity?
So you think power abuse by a mod would increase activity?
Dude. Can't you take a joke? And I think that Cen would be saying that it would have been fun for him, not the site as a whole.
I think it's possible to have both, but the addition of editing would make a double post incorrect.
But I won't feel bad about it, if they don't remove the html.
So you think power abuse by a mod would increase activity?
No...?
If you absolutely have to do the stupid and take it entirely serious (Hint: You shouldn't.), you should be aware I am not saying that it would increase activity, but it might be the reason why the staff don't think we should have a community admin. As actually stated in the part you quoted.
I would largely recommend you start reading what you quote carefully and stop making assumptions on anything, especially when you take everything stupidly seriously.
And I think that Cen would be saying that it would have been fun for him, not the site as a whole.
It would have been hilarious.
I didn't keep too close of an eye on cormyn's era of AG, but I do know that I saw his forum posts everywhere. Even if he only stuck around for a little bit, his presence was sure felt.
An admin's public face is vital for any forum's success. I haven't ever seen a popular forum where the staff was unseen.
I did mention it. Like I said, don't get your hopes up. He wasn't against the idea, but he also wasn't as gung-ho about it as I was.
Expected this. Wait, did I reply to this on page 10?
Oh, wait. I did. Silly me.
Alright... let's forget about the forums for just a moment here and turn our attention to the game comments. Being the avid gamer that I am, I tend to read through game comments almost every day for the fun of it because that's just the way I am. What I notice when I sift through these comments is that almost all of the ones from the past year or so are very short, 1 or 2-word comments! What I also notice is that a lot of these comments are posted by users who have between 5,000 and 10,000 AP, and the reason why the have so many AP in the first place is because they've posted so many of these short comments that don't relate specifically to the game!
The current AP system has been abused time and time again. With the new AG3 point system, there are supposed to be safety nets that will block this. Or at least that's what I heard 2 years ago. If the current web developers are having trouble with putting skins in AG3, I can't see how they will ever accomplish this.
This wouldn't bother me so much, but it appears that literally nothing is being done about it... this lack of supervision over game comments is telling point-hungry users that they can get away with posting ridiculously short comments and keep every point they've "earned" from posting them!
During Cormyn's reign over AG, I would often see him smashing users for doing this. He had the eye of a hawk and really took spamming seriously.
The game comments... all of them... are in need of a thorough cleansing. If the current moderation doesn't want to step up and handle this ongoing problem, the team needs to be expanded to find people who will take on the spam!
I do think an occasional temporary shutdown of all game comments for "spring cleaning" would be better. Besides, who can't wait a week to post their comment on a game for 2 lousy AP that will become useless when AG3 is released? It's really not like their comment will be that vital.
It would also be helpful if the admins had the activity to make the flag useful since those spam comments will invariably be flagged. With enough activity, the admins should be able to mass delete flagged comments, which would remove spam. The problem is that the spam is self-protecting since it is common enough that it will be impossible to show that the comments are being deleted because new spam will simply replace the old spam. Therefore, it is impossible to teach the spammers that spam is not OK.
Definitely. However, this will be very difficult to enforce because spammers don't necessarily pay attention to any rules, as they obviously break them in order to spam in the first place. There really isn't any easy answer.
That's not a problem if you have people cleaning the comments out fairly frequently, and it's a much better solution than just ignoring the situation entirely! AP farmers will be discouraged against AP farming if their comments all end up deleted, but if nothing is done, they're going to keep AP-farming and they're going to continue to get away with it.
This is blatant rule-breaking on a mass-scale. It's only going to get worse if something is not done about it soon!
There really is no other easy answer other than cleaning comments, warnings and bans, and making sure these users are aware that what they are doing is blatant rule-breaking. I can safely say that 75% of AP farmers aren't even aware of what they're doing, but are doing it because they see it as easy AP and think "Man, how has no one ever thought of this yet?"
I meant that there is enough spam to render regular cleanouts useless. I think the best solution would be to block submission of any comments that are below a certain number of words. This would prevent all the 1 and 2 word comments. As for AP farmers, regular cleanouts will get rid of old ones, but the site is well-known enough that new AP farmers will be created, and we would have the same problem all over again. Therefore, we can force AP farmers to cycle, but we cannot eliminate them completely.
A spam block for 1-2 word comments (or even [insert number here] comments for that matter) would prove to be useless given the fact that it isn't too hard to think up of a simple comment that can apply to any game and copy & paste it.
I think something is being done about it, but the site is popular enough to protect the idea of AP farming, if not the farmers themselves.
There is something being done about it. Unfortunately, it isn't the right thing to do. Different alternatives are necessary.
It's pretty effective to make sure they actually know about the rules. If they get a simple warning on their profile, they might not actually read it, because they don't visit their profile at all, and mods can barely make an impact on the points, if they are cleaning one game at a time.
If someone were to receive a message that AG redirects you to when you receive a temp-ban, I'm sure one would notice it and be sure to consider it. If they don't agree with the rule, then they will most likely leave. After all, AP farmer's presence isn't vital to AG's functions in any way, shape or form. Really, they are leeching off of the mod's time.
Personally, if I was an admin, I'd shut down game comments for 1-3 days and have a massive clean up of all spam comments. I know that new spam will always be posted but if everyone time a moderator deletes a comment it could send the infraction message as well I think it would be reduced.
"Spring cleaning." Good idea.
Been dreaming of this for years. But that would mean the admins actually care.
Oh, I'm pretty sure they do. It's all a relative issue.
Unfortunately, the admins most likely see this issue as something to get done on another date what with AG3 being released soon (maybe?) and more pressing demands like reviewing game submissions, legal issues, maintaining the site's integrity, advertising, etc.
It's not really that time consuming. It would simply be a code that would prevent any comment below a certain number of words from submitting.
Which would prove to be useless once AP farmers grow half a brain.
New AP farmers are joining all the time. Therefore, there is no way to completely eliminate AP farmers.
No, but there surely are ways of reducing the amount of spam created.
Then maybe the solution is to somehow force users to read the rules.
You can't *force* them upon the rules, but you can give them warnings.
Dan is a busy person. Whatever idea it was that was passed onto him (sorry Daleks, I lost track in 11 pages of posts) he probably considered a waste of what little time he has.
Again, we are truly the least of his worries. The bottom of his priority list.
It appears that Dan does not realize the importance that we users have to AG. We are the life of the website. We are the Admins source of income. Taking that into consideration, I think that we the users should be informed of what is going on with AGv3. We are entitled to at least that much.
This is a flash gaming website, and therefore the source of the admin's income would be the flash games. The forums are just one way to get people more interested into flash games and make people want to stay and play more releases.
Given the trends over the past few years, it's not out of the question to claim so.
AG has a huge community, even if it has been relatively shrinking over the past few months, but something this size can't just "up and die." There will always be new users replacing old ones. The problem resides at the fact that there are less "good" users coming in.
A thought crossed my mind about AG3: Assuming they have ads on that site (I wouldn't know considering I use adblock) could they be making half of what they are now? At first I thought it could've been double of what their normal income could be, but I doubt many people browse and play games on the beta site. This could be a reason why they've been putting it off; to get more money.
I assume companies pay AG the same seeing how it is the same corporation running both AG3 and AG2. No one is going to stick to one site.
To be entirely fair on the part of "Their customers are the game playing ones": They come complaining to the community as well, and without a community admin, their problems can't be fixed quickly either. Hence why we get 30+ threads whenever a server go down or a game is removed without a word.
They would benefit from a community admin, and the rest of us would be more likely to recommend this site to our more gaming friends.
The forums are a way of getting people to stay and play games. To get them popular again would result in getting more people to be dedicated to AG again. More people = more money.
But I won't feel bad about it, if they don't remove the html.
I do feel editing would prove to be more useful instead of HTML.
Sorry for the late post, I had keyboard problems.
AG has a huge community, even if it has been relatively shrinking over the past few months, but something this size can't just "up and die." There will always be new users replacing old ones. The problem resides at the fact that there are less "good" users coming in.
No. The bottom-line is that there is less new blood coming in, and more long time users running out, leading to a net loss. AG's community is not huge anymore, and it has been looking like a terminal disease for a long time. I thought it couldn't get worse last year, but it looks like I'm proving myself wrong now.
(over 4 million now), they just aren't interested in the community
that,or they cannot see the tiny button that is barely visible on the top of their screen.lots of people get a account on AG so that they can save their games and whatnot,very few acually can get their heads away from the flashing lights of the game to look around and see that there is a community.
This is a flash gaming website, and therefore the source of the admin's income would be the flash games.
I was referring to ALL users. Not just the users that use the forums. All users are entitled to information regarding AGv3.
This could be a reason why they've been putting it off; to get more money.
According to Alexa.com, only 1.87% of visitors to Armor Games visit the beta site. Sooo... I don't think that lack of money is the case.
Honestly, the forums don't exactly look interesting
MAKEOVER!OMG!
We need a Say Yes to the Dress, but for forums. Now's a time- Opportunity for our Community
I do admit we need to make that community button bugger. I sometimes miss it with my mouse. I do have a twitch though.
No. The bottom-line is that there is less new blood coming in, and more long time users running out, leading to a net loss. AG's community is not huge anymore, and it has been looking like a terminal disease for a long time. I thought it couldn't get worse last year, but it looks like I'm proving myself wrong now.
The forums still have a substantial amount of people to keep it running. There are forums with fewer people and still function well.
Besides, just because there's a net loss doesn't mean the forums will ever completely shut down., That is impossible. It is possible for the forums to have a very little activity rate, but it will never be absolutely zero.
It's all relative.
I understand what you mean, but there are a lot of new users (over 4 million now), they just aren't interested in the community. That's why we have the net loss in the forums. Honestly, the forums don't exactly look interesting. I wouldn't blame them for not posting. Activity is half of the beauty of forums.
There will always be some sort of new activity coming in. It won't be as much, but there will always be activity.
I think that making the community button bigger won't really solve much. I guess it might make about 5% more users join but I think that will be it. These people who don't know about a community are on here just for flash gaming and most would probably stay gaming. Besides, all of us found the button on our own, right? It can't be that hard to find.
As for how much activity affects forums, I think it does have a big influence. Sure, forums can survive on a low number of users, but would they really be fun and interesting to post in? I consider the AG forum functioning well, but look at us, making threads like these.
Besides, all of us found the button on our own, right? It can't be that hard to find
Well, I went to the last castle once, and I sayed
"You all know about the community right, because I've never seen any of you."
Everyone was confused, and never knew there were forums.
Thread is locked!