ForumsWEPRIssues with Islam

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Santi_
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Santi_
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I'm sure most people have heard of the ever infamous video, whose pilot was put onto Youtube, disgracing Islam.
Personally, I have not watched this video, and am not sure if there is another thread on this topic.

So, what is your opinion?
How should the U.S. react to having one of it's ambassoders and several others murdered?
Should the people who posted the video have it removed, fined, or given other punishments?
Where do we draw the line between freedom of speech, and hating against one's beliefs.

(I am personally not one for religion, but if a person has devoted their life to it, it must mean quite a large deal to them)

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nichodemus
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nichodemus
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Where do we draw the line between freedom of speech, and hating against one's beliefs.


I have almost no issue with Islam, growing up in a predominantly Muslim region. My only issue is with Muslims who take it to the extremes and wage a war against Infidels. Which is the same reason why I'm against all extremists groups. Different religion, same reason.

This is directed towards people who idolise freedom, and feel they have all sorts of right bundled in with it:

When it borders on hate speech, why should one's freedom of speech be allowed? Don't give me the ridiculous reason that it's a personal freedom and hence it needs to be allowed. You're infringing on the freedom of the person you're slurring, so what makes your freedom more important and acceptable?
jeol
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jeol
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I think back in WW2 (correct me if I'm wrong) 'Uncle Sam' punished people for loose talk, which may have revealed the US' plans to other countries.

Toward the events, obviously blind hate toward the speaker was rather, well, blind, and shows the lack of knowledge of the Middle East and religious intolerance. Obviously, if you believe one religion, you don't believe another, but unless your religion is intolerance you should learn to at least respect religions and the individuals decision to rationalize their beliefs. Disgust of all Muslims is a bit irrational, as it accounts for a majority of the population in Asia and not all Muslims wish death to the US (I know a few friendly Muslims myself).

Funny how all the outspoken people account for everyone of their label... I don't wonder if all of the Christians are labeled ignorant hypocrites who share pictures of 'God' on Facebook and write horrible poetry.

When it borders on hate speech, why should one's freedom of speech be allowed? Don't give me the ridiculous reason that it's a personal freedom and hence it needs to be allowed. You're infringing on the freedom of the person you're slurring, so what makes your freedom more important and acceptable?

I feel like any speech should be rational and reasonable, and not just hating on a generalization. There's not any way to really silence the idiots without silencing wise, so either you must silence both or encourage people to reason a lot, a lot. That still doesn't ensure that the hate speech will be minimized, but it may or may not solve the problem.

Surely, criticism is never a bad thing (it's more how it's received) (also, separate from straight-up insults, but that's just plain ignorance), but if you're making a generalization that surely not all of the labelled fit under, then there's a problem. There may be reasons, but they're based on outspoken events that don't account for the whole of the population - sort of like the video: I'm certain that not everybody feels the same way as the director felt (I didn't watch it either :P). In the same way, if the radical Islamists were actually attacking the Embassies because of the video, they were making a generalization that all Americans must think like that, which obviously isn't true, and in which case speaking out against that is sort of redundant and contradictory to the very thing they were speaking out against. I'm sort of guessing that they weren't, though, since it's probably not just coincidence that these attacks took place on 9/11 and they happened to know exactly were the ambassador was being hidden. Just a thought.
Skyla
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Skyla
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Nichodemus hit the nail on the head.

BritHennerz
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BritHennerz
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Where do we draw the line between freedom of speech, and hating against one's beliefs.

I believe, if you have an opinion that may offend someone, to keep it to yourself. If you wish to express it, do it in a polite, inoffensive manor, don't make a video on YouTube that is going to upset the masses. Discuss it in private with someone in a calm and collective manor without swearing or just insulting his beliefs but saying exactly why you have those beliefs and the person you discuss with is most likely going to say 'fair enough but I disagree because of this'. A friendly debate rather than an attack.
Kasic
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Kasic
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I believe, if you have an opinion that may offend someone, to keep it to yourself.


I don't agree with this. I could offend someone by telling them their views are racist/bigoted/biased. Those aren't reasons for me to keep quiet, they are reasons for me to speak.

If you wish to express it, do it in a polite, inoffensive manor,


This is the key part. The initial part of the talk should not start out in an attack.
Alpha791
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Alpha791
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The extremists are acting like the US government endorsed the movie or something. The US government has repeatedly condemned the making of this movie and claims no part of it, yet they have decided to kill a US ambassador and attack US embassies because some idiots decided that they would call Islam stupid, and those idiots happened to live in the US. Islam isn't the cause, it's extremist morons dragging blame into places it doesn't belong.

thewolf52
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thewolf52
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In defense of those attacks, it can be argued that as US govrn let such an act happen on its soil and did not stop the culprits, it has become an accomplice in that act.
So, all US govrn. officials have become legitimate targets.
Also for last ten years specially and for a century generally, US have been messing with muslims.

thewolf52
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thewolf52
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So, it was the last straw on camel's back (see what I did there?)

thewolf52
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thewolf52
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This is a duplicate.
I made it earlier.

Holladay15
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Look we we all have 'Freedom of speech' here in the U.S that guy who made the movie has his rights and can't be penalized for it. Now of course it doesn't mean what he did wasn't going to make people mad, but that doesn't give the people of Egypt the right to go and KILL an American, BURN our FLAG and then go punish another embassy (German embassy) for something they didn't do. It was the guy who made the pilot of the film, not the people of America or Germany

nichodemus
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Look we we all have 'Freedom of speech' here in the U.S that guy who made the movie has his rights and can't be penalized for it.


It's crazy what people think they have the freedom to say. You're infringing on the freedom of the insulted person. So my question again, is what makes your freedom to slur him, more important than his freedom to remain unsoiled and free from such baloney?

It was the guy who made the pilot of the film, not the people of America or Germany


Then why have so many American lone wolves targeted Muslims and Arabs in America since 9/11? The recent shooting of Sikhs just because they had turbans comes to mind. Americans are no better.
thewolf52
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thewolf52
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I think this is relevant

Alpha791
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Alpha791
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It's crazy what people think they have the freedom to say. You're infringing on the freedom of the insulted person. So my question again, is what makes your freedom to slur him, more important than his freedom to remain unsoiled and free from such baloney?


That is like.. perfectly said. People these days think that freedom of speech means that "Hey! I can go **** in this guy's shoes as long as I say its in my freedom of speech!" It's so stupid. Like when people protested at a US SOLDIERS FUNERAL. They screamed and yelled about how war is wrong and held up picket signs saying how him being in the military was wrong. People...
partydevil
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That is like.. perfectly said. People these days think that freedom of speech means that "Hey! I can go **** in this guy's shoes as long as I say its in my freedom of speech!" It's so stupid.


people should be able to say what is on their mind.

like when people protested at a US SOLDIERS FUNERAL. They screamed and yelled about how war is wrong

there are other better times to make yourself heard.
this can be seen as disturbances of public order. where probably is a law against in the usa aswell. (not sure, just a guess)

held up picket signs saying how him being in the military was wrong.

if he was in the military, i really wonder why he choose that moment. =S
1 thing is sure tho. he has changed for the bad in the military. and wont become his old self anymore.
Alpha791
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Alpha791
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people should be able to say what is on their mind.


Not when it is meant only to harass and condemn other people. Especially as someones funeral. That's just plain asinine and disturbing.

there are other better times to make yourself heard.
this can be seen as disturbances of public order. where probably is a law against in the usa aswell. (not sure, just a guess)


There's next to nothing that the US government or judicial system will do when people yell out "It's my freedom of speech!" so they were protected from any legal action.

if he was in the military, i really wonder why he choose that moment. =S
1 thing is sure tho. he has changed for the bad in the military. and wont become his old self anymore.


He died in combat like many people do. The military only changes you if you want it to change you. Being in the military isn't morally wrong. War isn't morally wrong. Moral perceptions change from era to era or even generation to generation. The fanatics who protest at a man's funeral sicken me and make me sad for the future of the human race if no one will even respect the memory of a man that gave his life fighting for a cause that they are too holy for.
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