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[dup]Arguments for God

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Posted Oct 14, '12 at 2:32pm

wgalstin4

wgalstin4

6 posts

Hi everyone,

I would like for anyone that thinks they have a convincing argument for the existence of God to post it here.

It doesn't matter if you're a believer or not, but I'd just like to see if anyone can provide an argument for the existence of God which can stand up to reasoning.

Most arguments for God's existence turn out to be circular, or can be reduced to faith alone which for me isn't enough.

I know people will say that the point in religion and God isn't to argue for His/Her/It's existence, but that the whole point is faith etc., and I acknowledge this as a valid point but one that is not relevant to this topic.

So any convincing arguments, please fire away!

Posted Oct 14, '12 at 3:41pm

DSM

DSM

795 posts

the fact that the world exist is an evidence for god existence.

 

Posted Oct 14, '12 at 4:06pm

Blackbeltr0

Blackbeltr0

249 posts

why is the world not 1 foot further or 1 foot closer to the sun so that we would not be here?????

 

Posted Oct 14, '12 at 4:23pm

partydevil

partydevil

4,390 posts

why is the world not 1 foot further or 1 foot closer to the sun so that we would not be here?

it's called the circumstellar habitable zone or CHZ.
it's not 1 foot wide but some million miles wide ;)
here is a nice simulator =)

 

Posted Oct 14, '12 at 4:25pm

Roccess

Roccess

176 posts

So, which god? You weren't religion-specific.

 

Posted Oct 14, '12 at 4:37pm

MageGrayWolf

MageGrayWolf

9,135 posts

the fact that the world exist is an evidence for god existence.

why is the world not 1 foot further or 1 foot closer to the sun so that we would not be here?????

I hope you guys aren't being serious. Seeing as neither are convincing arguments that stand up to reason.
DSM yours is a fallacy and is as good as saying this forum existing is evidence of magic forum fairies existing.
Blackbeltr0 yours is not factually correct. The distance from the Earth to the sun varies as it orbits as much as about 94.4 million miles due to an elliptical orbit. With this orbit we could decrease the distance as much as about 4,500,000 miles and increase it as much as about 34,000,000 miles and still remain int he habitable zone.

 

Posted Oct 14, '12 at 4:47pm

DSM

DSM

795 posts

I hope you guys aren't being serious. Seeing as neither are convincing arguments that stand up to reason.
DSM yours is a fallacy and is as good as saying this forum existing is evidence of magic forum fairies existing.

All you do is comparing my argument to something that has nothing to do with the topic. You haven't stated anything that makes my argument invalid.

 

Posted Oct 14, '12 at 5:04pm

wgalstin4

wgalstin4

6 posts

It doesn't matter what religion, I was thinking of God more as just some sort of supremely perfect being, not the God of any given scripture.

DSM - I don't think you can infer the existence of God from the existence of the world - what logical connection is there between the two? I'd say the existence of reality has only ever been used as "evidence" for God's existence in lieu of the absence of a satisfactory scientific explanation.

As far as the position of the Earth in relation to the Sun happening to be a habitable one, I'd say this is chance. The Earth is one of numerous planets orbiting numerous stars, and it just so happens that it is one of the planets with habitable conditions. You may then ask, "Well why our planet?" but this is confused, our planet wasn't chosen for us or made habitable for us, it just so happens to be able to support life and then we come onto the scene after the life-supporting circumstances have been established.

 

Posted Oct 14, '12 at 5:21pm

Kasic

Kasic

5,177 posts

You haven't stated anything that makes my argument invalid.

the fact that the world exist is an evidence for god existence

Then I will.

Your claim that because the world exists God exists. This is a baseless claim. You are inserting your random preferred cause without evidence. Anyone can just as easily claim that because the world exists their reason is why.

Let's replace some nouns and have fun, shall we?

the fact that the world exist is an evidence for Adskhjlfghs's existence
the fact that the world exist is an evidence for my existence
the fact that the world exist is an evidence for no other existence
the fact that the world exist is an evidence for karma's existence

 

Posted Oct 14, '12 at 5:29pm

HahiHa

HahiHa

4,227 posts

the fact that the world exist is an evidence for god existence.

Why? You didn't specify.

 

Posted Oct 14, '12 at 5:32pm

hello4225

hello4225

5 posts

Your question is quite broad so I hope my post is accepted. In this case, I'm going to attempt to give arguments for the existence of Jesus as God/Son of God.

To start off, It's a widely known and accepted fact among theists and atheists alike that Jesus was a Jew. So Jesus would obviously have known how important and sacred the acknowledgement of God was among the Jews. Jesus claimed to be able to forgive sins, said he had always existed and was coming again to judge the world at a later date in time. Among pantheists anyone might say he was a part of God or one with God and there would be nothing very odd about it. But here is a man - since he was a Jew, could not mean that kind of god. God to Jews meant the being outside the universe, who is infinitely different to everything else (the created). And as CS Lewis puts it, 'once you have grasped that you would see that what Jesus said was quite simply the most shocking thing that has ever been uttered by human lips.'

Jesus knew before hand, that his teachings would be punishable by death, despite the fact that the Jews were not aloud to kill him, for religious reasons, he and they both knew they where under Roman ruling at the time, and just how dreadful the Roman death penalty would be handed out to anyone who breaks the law or denies ceaser.

This is a man (Jesus) that managed to change (literally) the world, in just 3 years of ministry. In 3 years, he managed to create as some would call it, a religion - Known throughout almost the whole world. It's by His name that most countries date their calenders and in his name billions curse and pray alike. That's pretty epic for 3 years work.

Several times Jesus predicted his death and just how it would be carried out, so he knew what he was getting himself into. It was a very nasty death, not just a quick nail to the cross. Some might say Jesus was just insane, a mad man. I tell you, 40 lashes of the cat o nine tails whip would quickly sober you up in fact one lash probably would do the trick. Men will often, even gladly die for what they believe to be true, but men don't die for what they know is a lie. (unless their a double agent spy or something.) Jesus had several deciples but 12 were the inner circle. These are the men that literally ate and lived with Jesus. These men gave up families, probably wives and children even. Why would they do that if they knew Jesus was a fraud. They where in danger for their lives on a daily bases some even went to prison yet continued to praise God and write letters to the early churches that where spreading like wild fire. People wanted to kill them, to end their lives after Jesus had died. Yet they still preached and spread the Good News.

The Jewish religious teachers and the scribes where against Jesus, they wanted him dead. If Jesus had not been raised from the dead, surely all they would have to do is quickly recover his dead corpse to blow any such belief in his resurrection out of the water. Jesus' close followers (initially) saw him alive after he had been crucified in front of them. But some might say that His deciples where so distraught and upset by what had happened, and they desperately wanted to believe he was the Messiah that they only thought they say him and where probably hallucinating. Any scientist could tell you now that hallucinations don't happen in groups, it's an individual's experience. For this to have a mass effect, modern technology or at least some sort of supernatural event will have had to occur. (according to biblical reports, up to 500 people saw Jesus alive after he had been crucified).

Some will even say Jesus was a moral teacher but refuse to accept him as God. No one who said the type of things Jesus said, could simply be a moral teacher. You would have to be literally insane or desperately evil, to lead people into such a teaching that promises life after death as long as you believe in and are willing to die for this man and abandon your family and all loved ones. However, the other alternative, is that Jesus truly was who he says he is. To willingly taste a slow and painfully horrible death and before hand be mocked, punched slapped, spat on etc, for what you know is a lie, just for the shear enjoyment of leading a nation astray, not truly knowing your self what awaits you after you die. I  highly doubt such a man could exists.

There's a few arguments for the existence in the Christian God.