ForumsWEPR[dup]Arguments for God

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wgalstin4
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wgalstin4
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Hi everyone,

I would like for anyone that thinks they have a convincing argument for the existence of God to post it here.

It doesn't matter if you're a believer or not, but I'd just like to see if anyone can provide an argument for the existence of God which can stand up to reasoning.

Most arguments for God's existence turn out to be circular, or can be reduced to faith alone which for me isn't enough.

I know people will say that the point in religion and God isn't to argue for His/Her/It's existence, but that the whole point is faith etc., and I acknowledge this as a valid point but one that is not relevant to this topic.

So any convincing arguments, please fire away!

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DSM
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DSM
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the fact that the world exist is an evidence for god existence.

Blackbeltr0
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Blackbeltr0
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why is the world not 1 foot further or 1 foot closer to the sun so that we would not be here?????

partydevil
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partydevil
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why is the world not 1 foot further or 1 foot closer to the sun so that we would not be here?


it's called the circumstellar habitable zone or CHZ.
it's not 1 foot wide but some million miles wide
here is a nice simulator =)
Roccess
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Roccess
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So, which god? You weren't religion-specific.

MageGrayWolf
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MageGrayWolf
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the fact that the world exist is an evidence for god existence.

why is the world not 1 foot further or 1 foot closer to the sun so that we would not be here?????


I hope you guys aren't being serious. Seeing as neither are convincing arguments that stand up to reason.
DSM yours is a fallacy and is as good as saying this forum existing is evidence of magic forum fairies existing.
Blackbeltr0 yours is not factually correct. The distance from the Earth to the sun varies as it orbits as much as about 94.4 million miles due to an elliptical orbit. With this orbit we could decrease the distance as much as about 4,500,000 miles and increase it as much as about 34,000,000 miles and still remain int he habitable zone.
DSM
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DSM
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I hope you guys aren't being serious. Seeing as neither are convincing arguments that stand up to reason.
DSM yours is a fallacy and is as good as saying this forum existing is evidence of magic forum fairies existing.


All you do is comparing my argument to something that has nothing to do with the topic. You haven't stated anything that makes my argument invalid.
wgalstin4
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wgalstin4
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It doesn't matter what religion, I was thinking of God more as just some sort of supremely perfect being, not the God of any given scripture.

DSM - I don't think you can infer the existence of God from the existence of the world - what logical connection is there between the two? I'd say the existence of reality has only ever been used as "evidence" for God's existence in lieu of the absence of a satisfactory scientific explanation.

As far as the position of the Earth in relation to the Sun happening to be a habitable one, I'd say this is chance. The Earth is one of numerous planets orbiting numerous stars, and it just so happens that it is one of the planets with habitable conditions. You may then ask, "Well why our planet?" but this is confused, our planet wasn't chosen for us or made habitable for us, it just so happens to be able to support life and then we come onto the scene after the life-supporting circumstances have been established.

Kasic
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Kasic
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You haven't stated anything that makes my argument invalid.


the fact that the world exist is an evidence for god existence


Then I will.

Your claim that because the world exists God exists. This is a baseless claim. You are inserting your random preferred cause without evidence. Anyone can just as easily claim that because the world exists their reason is why.

Let's replace some nouns and have fun, shall we?

the fact that the world exist is an evidence for Adskhjlfghs's existence
the fact that the world exist is an evidence for my existence
the fact that the world exist is an evidence for no other existence
the fact that the world exist is an evidence for karma's existence
HahiHa
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HahiHa
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the fact that the world exist is an evidence for god existence.

Why? You didn't specify.
hello4225
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hello4225
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Your question is quite broad so I hope my post is accepted. In this case, I'm going to attempt to give arguments for the existence of Jesus as God/Son of God.

To start off, It's a widely known and accepted fact among theists and atheists alike that Jesus was a Jew. So Jesus would obviously have known how important and sacred the acknowledgement of God was among the Jews. Jesus claimed to be able to forgive sins, said he had always existed and was coming again to judge the world at a later date in time. Among pantheists anyone might say he was a part of God or one with God and there would be nothing very odd about it. But here is a man - since he was a Jew, could not mean that kind of god. God to Jews meant the being outside the universe, who is infinitely different to everything else (the created). And as CS Lewis puts it, 'once you have grasped that you would see that what Jesus said was quite simply the most shocking thing that has ever been uttered by human lips.'

Jesus knew before hand, that his teachings would be punishable by death, despite the fact that the Jews were not aloud to kill him, for religious reasons, he and they both knew they where under Roman ruling at the time, and just how dreadful the Roman death penalty would be handed out to anyone who breaks the law or denies ceaser.

This is a man (Jesus) that managed to change (literally) the world, in just 3 years of ministry. In 3 years, he managed to create as some would call it, a religion - Known throughout almost the whole world. It's by His name that most countries date their calenders and in his name billions curse and pray alike. That's pretty epic for 3 years work.

Several times Jesus predicted his death and just how it would be carried out, so he knew what he was getting himself into. It was a very nasty death, not just a quick nail to the cross. Some might say Jesus was just insane, a mad man. I tell you, 40 lashes of the cat o nine tails whip would quickly sober you up in fact one lash probably would do the trick. Men will often, even gladly die for what they believe to be true, but men don't die for what they know is a lie. (unless their a double agent spy or something.) Jesus had several deciples but 12 were the inner circle. These are the men that literally ate and lived with Jesus. These men gave up families, probably wives and children even. Why would they do that if they knew Jesus was a fraud. They where in danger for their lives on a daily bases some even went to prison yet continued to praise God and write letters to the early churches that where spreading like wild fire. People wanted to kill them, to end their lives after Jesus had died. Yet they still preached and spread the Good News.

The Jewish religious teachers and the scribes where against Jesus, they wanted him dead. If Jesus had not been raised from the dead, surely all they would have to do is quickly recover his dead corpse to blow any such belief in his resurrection out of the water. Jesus' close followers (initially) saw him alive after he had been crucified in front of them. But some might say that His deciples where so distraught and upset by what had happened, and they desperately wanted to believe he was the Messiah that they only thought they say him and where probably hallucinating. Any scientist could tell you now that hallucinations don't happen in groups, it's an individual's experience. For this to have a mass effect, modern technology or at least some sort of supernatural event will have had to occur. (according to biblical reports, up to 500 people saw Jesus alive after he had been crucified).

Some will even say Jesus was a moral teacher but refuse to accept him as God. No one who said the type of things Jesus said, could simply be a moral teacher. You would have to be literally insane or desperately evil, to lead people into such a teaching that promises life after death as long as you believe in and are willing to die for this man and abandon your family and all loved ones. However, the other alternative, is that Jesus truly was who he says he is. To willingly taste a slow and painfully horrible death and before hand be mocked, punched slapped, spat on etc, for what you know is a lie, just for the shear enjoyment of leading a nation astray, not truly knowing your self what awaits you after you die. I highly doubt such a man could exists.

There's a few arguments for the existence in the Christian God.

hello4225
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hello4225
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Or how about this one: "The fact that the world exists, is evidence for a creator." All we know and understand within our world has some how been created in one way or the other. So saying that the world's existence is proof for a creator is not a baseless argument. Because it is by an initiator or creator that we accept the origin of the existence of things, within our realm of understanding.

And a god is anything that is worshiped/idolized right? Well the 'initiator' of this universe is both worshiped and is creator. And also is supernatural, since is inconceivable even by mans highest knowledge and understanding of sciences. So I guess He/it can be defined as God with a capital G and the type of God referred to in this topic.

Roccess
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Roccess
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If you guys don't like religion, that's fine, but don't talk down to those who believe in less science.

Anyways, I believe the ancient Greek/Roman Gods exist (oh yes) because I believe, like many people, that there is something bigger than us in this world, this life. Be it on Earth in disguise, or in space, it does not matter. In my religion, the Gods do not simply show themselves to the human kind.

Without realizing it, we believers have more proof than you do. You may be able to disprove a few myths, but in the time when most religions were starting, there were no books, or recorded history, besides bibles. And even if a single God visited our Earth, and we all depicted him in our own way, we all still created religion.

Of course, this is not proof, but still... even if this made no sense, I still wanted to point out that religion was started somehow.

Kasic
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Kasic
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If you guys don't like religion, that's fine, but don't talk down to those who believe in less science.


Not too sure what you mean by this exactly...but no one has done so on this thread so far.

Anyways, I believe the ancient Greek/Roman Gods exist (oh yes) because I believe, like many people, that there is something bigger than us in this world, this life. Be it on Earth in disguise, or in space, it does not matter. In my religion, the Gods do not simply show themselves to the human kind.


Okay. You believe. Why do you believe in what you believe specifically? Why not something else?

Without realizing it, we believers have more proof than you do.


*Takes a look at selected holy texts.*
*Takes a look at mountains of research with repeatable experimental processes and corroborating data.*

Really? Also, what 'evidence' religion has is hearsay and individual, unbacked claims.

You may be able to disprove a few myths, but in the time when most religions were starting, there were no books, or recorded history, besides bibles.


...let me get this straight. You have more evidence because we has disproven parts of your belief and you had even less collaboration and consistency in your belief? That makes sense how?

And even if a single God visited our Earth, and we all depicted him in our own way, we all still created religion.


This all lies on the if part, which still has no backing. If a purple unicorn attacked a penguin farm, those penguins might be in trouble. If.

I still wanted to point out that religion was started somehow.


Of course it was started somehow. Things grow. Religion grew in the exact same way gossip grows and the very thing you mentioned earlier, that there were no books or consistent communications, only help prove that.

As of this post, there have been no valid arguments given for a god.
SpazAttackerz
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SpazAttackerz
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Just wondering (and I'm not particularly religious myself, de-converted about 2 years ago or so), but could miracles be an argument for a god? This is a question I've been pondering for a while, so let me explain.

Say you have a job, and everyday at the end of your shift you leave by car, and you always take the fastest way home, a certain route that you've taken for about 6 months. One day, for whatever reason, something in your head wants you to go a different way, so you do. You go the longer route for no particular reason, and when you get back home you find out that there was an accident that occurred somewhere along the route you usually take. It would've taken place just about when you reached there, most likely injuring you.

So considering that, I've been looking around and I can't exactly find much scientific reason as to what happened, why you would go the other way. Could something like this be the effect of a god? Do you think these miracles are controlled by something, like a god? Or is there scientific evidence for why this would happen? Just a question, not trying to be on one side or the other, just looking for an answer.

TDOG422
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TDOG422
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F.I.C.T.I.O.N

look it up.

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