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How old do you think the universe is?

Posted Dec 20, '12 at 10:54pm

EmperorPalpatine

EmperorPalpatine

5,011 posts

Let's take a closer look at this.
Magic: Words are said, effects happen.
God: Words are said, effects happen.
What do you know, they're the same.

I think he was pointing out that his God did something more than solely words: 'Breathing Life' into the clay (not that this substantiates the claim any more than a magician clapping their hands while saying the word and making a dove appear).

Heh Heh. I don't know what country you're from but it's "Innocent until proven Guilty" in the U.S

The prosecution claims the defendant is guilty. That's a positive claim. The prosecution needs to bring the evidence that supports their positive claim. The court sees the defendant as innocent until the prosecution's positive claim that the defendant is guilty is supported by sufficient evidence. Getting it?

Also, how old (or young) are you?

 

Posted Dec 20, '12 at 11:01pm

404011xz

404011xz

218 posts

Not really sure, I'de probably have to go with billions of years old.

 

Posted Dec 20, '12 at 11:58pm

Kasic

Kasic

5,591 posts

I don't know... like 200.  200 years

Trolling works better when you don't have 8,400 posts.

I think he was pointing out that his God did something more than solely words: 'Breathing Life' into the clay (not that this substantiates the claim any more than a magician clapping their hands while saying the word and making a dove appear).

Traditionally magic isn't done solely with just spoken words either. Ritual items and certain conditions have to be met with your more formal magicky things.

Not really sure, I'de probably have to go with billions of years old.

If you don't know, why don't you look into it? Giving a random number is simply making something up for no reason...

 

Posted Dec 21, '12 at 12:06am

wontgetmycatnip

wontgetmycatnip

95 posts

There are other versions?

There are many versions of the Bible (King James, New International, Young's Literal, etc.). As well, there are many denominations (Roman Catholic, Greek Orthodox, British Episcopalian, etc.).

Gravity has been.

Once again, you cannot prove a scientific theory; you can only demonstrate its validity and accuracy.

Well He says words. The universe appears. That's how.

What chemical interactions does that entail?

Yes but it doesn't make it false.

Until you can demonstrate a truth value for a claim, it is either senseless or dishonest to assign a truth value to it.

Also There have never been Unicorn sightings and Bill Clinton doesn't have fairy wings.

No unicorn sightings you say?
Of course he does.

That is the problem. If you tried to watch it occur, well it would be impossible. Nothing would exist outside of the singularity, not air, not even empty space. You would coexist with non-existance, if that's comprehendable.

Ah, so you were there? You can tell us firsthand what happened? (Also, comprehensible, not comprehendable, and non-existence, not non-existance. You make me sic.)

 

Posted Dec 21, '12 at 12:11am

pangtongshu

pangtongshu

8,704 posts

Also There have never been Unicorn sightings

Whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa hold up! How has no one used this yet??

Ok..so you are trying to claim that the universe was created by god...god..who you cannot prove his existence of. However, when asked about Unicorns..you say they do not exist solely because there have never been sightings

So..unicorns do not exist because they have never been seen...but your logic doesn't work for god?

 

Posted Dec 21, '12 at 12:25am

404011xz

404011xz

218 posts

Kasic, the this topic clearly states how old do you THINK the universe is. I gave how old I belive the universe is. Unless I'm really into the topic then I won't get  into it. I was just giving a simple answer as to what I THINK. I don't really inted to stay in this are either. I try not to get in religious arguments, one of the worst kind of arguments you can get into.

 

Posted Dec 21, '12 at 1:43am

MageGrayWolf

MageGrayWolf

9,691 posts

Knight

There are other versions?

There are over 35,000 versions. If you want to count each individual belief there are far more than that even.

Fun fact: in 1970 there were an estimated 666 million Catholics.

Gravity has been.

No the theory of gravity has not been proven. It is however supported by strong evidence.

Well He says words. The universe appears. That's how.

"pure freakin’ magic"

Yes but it doesn't make it false.

No it doesn't but it doesn't make it true either.

Also There have never been Unicorn sightings and Bill Clinton doesn't have fairy wings.

Actually there are people who report seeing unicorns. As for Billy boy, just because you never saw them doesn't mean they aren't there nor does it mean they are. The thing is your God claim is in the same boat as unicorns and fairy winged politicians.

No it's called R-E-L-I-G-I-O-N

It's not common sense, it's religion? I guess I can't argue with you there.

It's not a spell. He said "Let Their Be Life." And then he Breathed Life into the clay. Not just "Abracaherpyderp" And he did nothing and it magically happened.

Abracadabra originates from the Aramaic language "Avra Kadavrai" meaning "I will create as my words".

So yes, abracababra.

Heh Heh. I don't know what country you're from but it's "Innocent until proven Guilty" in the U.S

Yes it is innocent until proven guilty, that's what I said. The claim is they are not innocent, but until that is proven they are regarded as innocent. Your statement has us saying something is true (saying someone is guilty) until that is proven false (proven they are innocent, that they didn't do it).

Exactly. The Hebrew Test. I am a Christian though.

the old testament (a good chunk of your Bible) was originally in Hebrew.

You know forget educating yourself on science, start by educating your self about your own belief system.

I told you in my bible it just says God.

That's likely because your version of the Bible (and yes there are numerous other versions) just replaced Yahweh and other terms used with God.

And where is that.

Happy place, Happy place, Happy, place...

ON PAGE 8! Those two links and the super huge wall of text that took three posts to completely copy over just so you could read it!

Had to delete a few choice words there. Let's just say it's a good thing this is over the net instead of face to face or I might get arrested for homicide about now....

Kasic, the this topic clearly states how old do you THINK the universe is. I gave how old I belive the universe is. Unless I'm really into the topic then I won't get  into it. I was just giving a simple answer as to what I THINK. I don't really inted to stay in this are either. I try not to get in religious arguments, one of the worst kind of arguments you can get into.

The thing is we don't have to rely on guess work, we have a way of knowing within a high degree of certainty.

 

Posted Dec 21, '12 at 2:43am

Kasic

Kasic

5,591 posts

Kasic, the this topic clearly states how old do you THINK the universe is. I gave how old I belive the universe is.

I understand that. However, when you state, "I'm not really sure" it seems to me that you would do a little research instead of just coming up with a number.

I try not to get in religious arguments

This isn't really a religious argument, per say. It's more of something that religion wants to have a say on and tries to adapt their beliefs to.

The thing is we don't have to rely on guess work, we have a way of knowing within a high degree of certainty.

If we go from the assumption that the big bang which was the "start" point for our universe was the first. Can't say whether there haven't been multiple crunches or what not.

 

Posted Dec 21, '12 at 9:20am

blk2860

blk2860

4,412 posts

If you were there at the time, yes. For starters, there was no air.

Oxygen tank. Astronaut suit.

Which version? King James? New International Version? American Standard Version?

I don't have it with me right NOW. But I read it a ton so I'd know if it said a name for God.

Magic: Words are said, effects happen.
God: Words are said, effects happen.

This is it for creating life:

Magic: Magic Words said, Life happens
God: God says words, Breathes Life into clay figures

What do you know they're different.

The prosecution claims the defendant is guilty. That's a positive claim. The prosecution needs to bring the evidence that supports their positive claim. The court sees the defendant as innocent until the prosecution's positive claim that the defendant is guilty is supported by sufficient evidence. Getting it?

Yes that's Innocent until proven Guilty. They're Legally Innocent until there is sufficient evidence to prove they're guilty.

What chemical interactions does that entail?

Well when he said the words. A Big Explosion Appeared that you call the Big Bang. It was actually how the universe was created but God had to be there to cause it.

Abracadabra originates from the Aramaic language "Avra Kadavrai" meaning "I will create as my words".

Really? Well I learned something new today. Also that strangely reminds of the Harry Potter spell "Avada Kedavra" Where when you say it and do the thing with your want it kills who you cast the spell at.

 

Posted Dec 21, '12 at 10:16am

HahiHa

HahiHa

5,082 posts

Knight

Magic: Magic Words said, Life happens
God: God says words, Breathes Life into clay figures

1) That distinction between "magic words" and "god words" is purely manipulative; words are words and making a linguistical difference doesn't help the case.
2) Magic is usually usage of the caster's mana/energy that will create the wanted effect. in what way is that different from, say, breathing on clay to transmit god's energy to imbue life?

Well when he said the words. A Big Explosion Appeared that you call the Big Bang. It was actually how the universe was created but God had to be there to cause it.

Why those capitals on the beginning of the second sentence? Anyway..
1) The big bang is thought to be an expansion and not an explosion.
2) The only thing you do is taking the current stance on the matter and put "god did it" before that. It is your belief that god is the cause and this is fine, as it is something we don't know yet; but please accept that god being the cause is your belief, and not an evidenced fact. With all due respect for your belief and your need to defend it, but you should avoid presenting it as a fact, since it's not. Not to everyone.

 
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