ForumsWEPRGhosts/Can atheists believe in them?

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pangtongshu
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pangtongshu
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So..I'm sure this was once a thread...but I haven't seen it at all recently so I don't want o go looking for the possible previous one

Do you believe in ghosts? Why or why not? etc

"But pang..why is this in WEPR? This should go in The Tavern!"
Don't worry..I gots this covered..

Do you believe ghosts, if they were real, would be valid proof that there is an afterlife as believed by many religions? (which, I'm sure if you go deep enough, would eventually become a "does god exist argument"...but that isn't the question...so...yeah)

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Kasic
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Kasic
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Often. But doesn't science teach us to be open minded?


Here's where religious/supernatural nuts like to attack science from. Science is open-minded, but it's also not just going to accept any random crap someone says without something to back it up either.

When someone claims to have seen a ghost, but has no picture (or said picture is blurry and can be anything) then there isn't much reason to believe them.

Then you have to look at how many people report these sorts of things and if they can be replicated.

If ghosts were real, don't you think they would have found some solid evidence for them by now? Claims of haunted houses can be investigated and they are, but what shows up? Nothing, or some other explanation for what someone thought was the ghost.

but many still perplex.


The only real perplexing thing is that there's no immediate answer to explain it since it can't be repeated and there were only a few witnesses. Or sheer coincidence which gain a lot of attention.
nichodemus
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nichodemus
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When someone claims to have seen a ghost, but has no picture (or said picture is blurry and can be anything) then there isn't much reason to believe them.

Then you have to look at how many people report these sorts of things and if they can be replicated.


[quote]but it's also not just going to accept any random crap someone says without something to back it up either.


The Enfield poltergeist, and the like. I have had personal experiences with the unexplained, so that explains my stronger belief in them. Too many coincidences to be down to mere chance.

If ghosts were real, don't you think they would have found some solid evidence for them by now? Claims of haunted houses can be investigated and they are, but what shows up? Nothing, or some other explanation for what someone thought was the ghost.[/quote]

And yet often no explanation is found. Brown Lady for example. I'm not saying that the ''afterlife'' exists, but other theories about ''spirits'' that permeate.

The only real perplexing thing is that there's no immediate answer to explain it since it can't be repeated and there were only a few witnesses.


Isn't that the real mystery and not the afterlife?
MageGrayWolf
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MageGrayWolf
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Often. But doesn't science teach us to be open minded?


Yes, that's why such claims should be investigated.

but many still perplex.


Not that many really.

And yet often no explanation is found. Brown Lady for example. I'm not saying that the ''afterlife'' exists, but other theories about ''spirits'' that permeate.


I'm surprised they don't have the criticism section on that one on wiki.

"Skeptics, however, argue that the picture is a fake. The photo analyst Joe Nickell examined the photograph and concluded that it was nothing more than two images composited together."
http://www.museumofhoaxes.com/raynham.html]http://www.museumofhoaxes.com/raynham.html]http://www.museumofhoaxes.com/raynham.html

"Alan Murdie - a barrister and also a researcher into the supernnatural - found the evidence in a dusty folder in the manuscripts department of Cambridge University library. The file details an exhaustive investigation into the phenomenon shortly after the image was taken. Conducted by the Society for Psychical Research, it concludes that there is almost certainly a mundane explanation for the "spectral" image in the photo. The evidence includes the discovery that the camera may have leaked light on to the photographic plate."
-source no longer available but here is another article from Alan Murdie.
http://www.forteantimes.com/features/articles/86/the_brown_lady_of_raynham_hall.html
nichodemus
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nichodemus
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I'm surprised they don't have the criticism section on that one on wiki.


Actually there was criticism of it on the Wiki page.
partydevil
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partydevil
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Often. But doesn't science teach us to be open minded?


i think this is a example of
"if you open your mind to much, your brains will fall out"
partydevil
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partydevil
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and if it are not souls then what is it? electricity?
then i believe in ghosts aswell. because ghosts power my tv and pc etc. etc.

and why are there never ghosts of animals (except a dog or cat some1 used to love) why no dinosaur ghosts or lions, giant ghost fish. if ghosts are real why dont we see/feel/smell them all the time? =S

nichodemus
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nichodemus
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and if it are not souls then what is it? electricity?
then i believe in ghosts aswell. because ghosts power my tv and pc etc. etc.


Leftover emotions, EMP signals, all sorts of theories abound, rather than just the ''soul''.

and why are there never ghosts of animals (except a dog or cat some1 used to love) why no dinosaur ghosts or lions, giant ghost fish. if ghosts are real why dont we see/feel/smell them all the time? =S


This I do not claim to know. There have been ghost animals all the time though. Perhaps it's because humans have emotions. Perhaps it's because we're biologically different. I have seen enough to convince me that there is something out there at any rate.
partydevil
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partydevil
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Leftover emotions, EMP signals, all sorts of theories abound, rather than just the ''soul''.

sorry this still sounds crazy. just believing in souls makes more sense then this for me.
nichodemus
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nichodemus
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sorry this still sounds crazy. just believing in souls makes more sense then this for me.


Yet you dismiss that as crazy. There's no satisfying some people.

It sounded crazy when someone said we revolved around the Sun. There's no definite conclusion to the ''supernatural''. I'm just waiting for the pieces to fall together.
partydevil
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partydevil
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yet you dismiss that as crazy. There's no satisfying some people


maybe because i entirely fail to see the connections between ghosts and the things you say whitout any further explaining on how it connects.

EMP pulse? that is a emp pulse not ghosts.
leftover emotions? emotions? emotions are gone when we are dead. ever saw a dead body smile and wink? =S
or the emotions are flying around in open air.
how do you connect emotions whit ghosts? =S

like i said the souls idea makes the most sense if i had to believe in ghosts.
nichodemus
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nichodemus
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EMP pulse? that is a emp pulse not ghosts.


EMF sorry.

EMP pulse? that is a emp pulse not ghosts.
leftover emotions? emotions? emotions are gone when we are dead. ever saw a dead body smile and wink? =S
or the emotions are flying around in open air.
how do you connect emotions whit ghosts? =S


Stone tapes.

Notice the apostrophe's around supernatural, spirits and ghosts. Not everyone thinks of ''ghosts'' as souls, but as natural phenomenon that we have not always been able to explain.
partydevil
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partydevil
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Stone tapes.

also notice the "paranormal hypothesis"
or "Beyond the range of normal experience or scientific explanation"

there is no such thing as paranormal...

It speculates that inanimate materials can absorb some form of energy from living beings; the hypothesis speculates that this "recording" happens especially during moments of high tension, such as murder, or during intense moments of someone's life.


means we can recreate these high tension situations. and we can see ourself as ghosts in those objects.
why didn't anyone do that yet? or have we ever heard of a case where someone sees the ghosts of a alive person?

if this really happens why dont wee see it all the time?
there could be stores whit things that have this special energy in it. it is a whole new market.

how does it absorb energy. or shell we start whit.. what energy? just energy is very wide. lets narrow down on the sort of energy 1st.
partydevil
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partydevil
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EMF sorry.


still, a EMF is a EMF. not a ghost.
nichodemus
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nichodemus
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also notice the "paranormal hypothesis"
or "Beyond the range of normal experience or scientific explanation"

there is no such thing as paranormal...


Science is always breaking barriers we never thought it would.

means we can recreate these high tension situations. and we can see ourself as ghosts in those objects.
why didn't anyone do that yet? or have we ever heard of a case where someone sees the ghosts of a alive person?

if this really happens why dont wee see it all the time?
there could be stores whit things that have this special energy in it. it is a whole new market.


Who knows? Science is still exploring them. And you're talking about such a hypothesis as if you know it's whole function and characteristics. Yet you claim we don't know much about them.


how does it absorb energy. or shell we start whit.. what energy? just energy is very wide. lets narrow down on the sort of energy 1st.


Again, no one has explained all situations.
partydevil
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partydevil
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Science is always breaking barriers we never thought it would.


i'll come back when it is a hypothesis and not a paranormal hypothesis.
untill then it is paranormal i.e. not reality. i.e. false.
the whole idea fails to me. (i'm oing to send it to mythbusters. it gotta be a nice episode. scaring the hell out of them is always fun)

but anyway you said there are more explanations that does not include souls or a afterlife.

lets hear it.
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