Forums → WEPR → Ghosts/Can atheists believe in them?
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So..I'm sure this was once a thread...but I haven't seen it at all recently so I don't want o go looking for the possible previous one
Do you believe in ghosts? Why or why not? etc
"But pang..why is this in WEPR? This should go in The Tavern!"
Don't worry..I gots this covered..
Do you believe ghosts, if they were real, would be valid proof that there is an afterlife as believed by many religions? (which, I'm sure if you go deep enough, would eventually become a "does god exist argument"...but that isn't the question...so...yeah)
- 111 Replies
I could've easily been wrong.
Yes, you could have. Just because you weren't doesn't mean anything.
The thing is, you were looking for this. You don't remember all your dreams to begin with, and when you remember a dream that is mundane and has a chance of happening -with the expectation of it's going to happen- if you wait long enough, of course something similar to that will eventually happen.
Now, did you specifically write down beforehand, "My friend (name) came to me in this dream in this location and talked to me about his paycheck, which he had doubled?" because if not, I don't see any further reason to continue talking. Even if you did write something that specific, that's still not nearly enough evidence, especially if you take -every- dream you have, write it down, and watch for it to happen or not because 99.99% of them probably don't even have a chance of actually happening.
"My friend (name) came to me in this dream in this location and talked to me about his paycheck, which he had doubled?"
Other than the doubled part, yes. But I was more specific about the location in the room (unusual because I didn't normally sit there) and how he walked up (direction he came from, where he stood).
Yes, you could have. Just because you weren't doesn't mean anything.
The thing is, you were looking for this
The thing is, I was expecting to be wrong. I almost didn't say anything from the fear of foolishly being waaay off.
I'm not going to break into a flooded house in the middle of an estate.
break in, break in... your just going to take a look.
And; what's that?
it's a special effect used mainly by magicians.
but for those who know hpw it works. it can be a very fun thing to fool people in thinking he see ghosts.
you basically need 3 mirrors and 2 light sources to create a sort of 3d image.
and whit a bit more technology you can even make something like this
you can even make something like this
Blocked in the US due to copyright. I'd link to the similar Tupac projection, but it contains strong language, so it'd be against the rules. If you want to see it, youtube: tupac hologram.
Other than the doubled part, yes. But I was more specific about the location in the room (unusual because I didn't normally sit there) and how he walked up (direction he came from, where he stood).
Could you write for us exactly what you had written down? (Leaving out names of people anyways.)
Sure:
"On the night of November 27, 2011, I had a dream in which I was seated in the commons at the last table (the northwest side) across from the northeast checkout counter, facing southwest. My friend, [name], approached me from the southeast on the other side of the table. He was holding an envelope. He stood in front of me and discussed, at length, what it was about. I was rather disinterested, but I remember that it had something to do with his paycheck. Then I woke up."
All of that happened to happen, which surprised the hell out of me. I was hoping for at least some of that to be wrong, so I could dismiss it as finding something that wasn't there. But it was.
"On the night of November 27, 2011, I had a dream in which I was seated in the commons at the last table (the northwest side) across from the northeast checkout counter, facing southwest. My friend, [name], approached me from the southeast on the other side of the table. He was holding an envelope. He stood in front of me and discussed, at length, what it was about. I was rather disinterested, but I remember that it had something to do with his paycheck. Then I woke up."
All of that happened to happen, which surprised the hell out of me. I was hoping for at least some of that to be wrong, so I could dismiss it as finding something that wasn't there. But it was.
This still sounds like it could just be coincidence to me.
I had a dream in which I was seated in the commons at the last table (the northwest side) across from the northeast checkout counter, facing southwest.
Do you normally sit there? Also, do you have anything else written down that eventually happened?
Do you normally sit there?
Nope, usually two rows southwest or two rows northeast in the center.
Also, do you have anything else written down that eventually happened?
A few, and they all happened within a few months of the related dreams, but I didn't usually have many details written down, so they're pretty vague.
Of course Atheists can believe them, in fact it proves almost that there is no Heaven if some people are trapped on this Earth rather than in Heaven or Hell. It could be argued that ghosts are in Purgatory but if that was the case there would be so many more ghosts around.
I personally don't believe in ghosts but that's not because I'm an atheist, it's because I've never seen one before. I believe that ghosts, if they exist, are caused by a a fluctuation in space and time, hence why many ghosts don't respond to you, rather they act out a section of their life, normally their death.
Course. There are theories that ghosts are just leftover emotions, or baloney like that; nothing soul related whatsoever. Who knows?
Not everyone who believes in ghosts think they go:
I am thy father's spirit,
Doom'd for a certain term to walk the night,
And for the day confined to fast in fires,
Till the foul crimes done in my days of nature
Are burnt and purged away. But that I am forbid
To tell the secrets of my prison-house,
I could a tale unfold whose lightest word
Would harrow up thy soul, freeze thy young blood,
Make thy two eyes, like stars, start from their spheres,
Thy knotted and combined locks to part
And each particular hair to stand on end,
Like quills upon the fretful porpentine:
But this eternal blazon must not be
To ears of flesh and blood. List, list, O, list!
If thou didst ever thy dear father love--
Of course Atheists can believe them, in fact it proves almost that there is no Heaven if some people are trapped on this Earth rather than in Heaven or Hell.
How does that prove there is no Heaven or Hell? The argument against that would be purgatory or "they just have one more thing to do before they move on"
It could be argued that ghosts are in Purgatory but if that was the case there would be so many more ghosts around.
What makes you say that? You say this quite definitively...any proof to back this up?
hence why many ghosts don't respond to you,
From my experience and experiences many others I know have had..this isn't the case. They can be quite responsive and act on their own accord, instead of acting out the same scene over and over
How does that prove there is no Heaven or Hell? The argument against that would be purgatory or "they just have one more thing to do before they move on"
I don't remember hearing of any instance where the bible mentions purgatory, nor any where it mentions that some people have to do something before entering heaven. Nor do I remember hearing of anything like an in-between state. I'm convinced those are just popular beliefs generally integrated without a question in people's religious belief. Which is why I agree with partydevil on this one.
My critique to partydevils post is more that you say you don't believe in ghosts, but then elaborate quite specifically on how it would work if they existed, basing it on others experiences. Nothing.. wrong with it, just peculiar.
I don't remember hearing of any instance where the bible mentions purgatory, nor any where it mentions that some people have to do something before entering heaven. Nor do I remember hearing of anything like an in-between state. I'm convinced those are just popular beliefs generally integrated without a question in people's religious belief.
I don't know if there was an idea before hand...but I know The Divine Comedy has Purgatory. Also the the idea of souling in the late medieval times So chalk that up to popular beliefs
I'm pretty sure the "just having one more thing to do" is also a fabrication of popular beliefs...something along the lines of the soul wanting to be at peace etc
Which is why I agree with partydevil on this one
what did i say? =o
the mirror trick thingy?
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