ForumsWEPRGun control in the US

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theEPICgameKING
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theEPICgameKING
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Discuss. General Tavern rules apply. (No mudslinging, be respectful, etc.)
I'll open with the statement that people should not have guns. No one at all, except the armed forces, and even then, keep the guns on the bases. Cops should carry riot shields and armor instead of guns. If they need crowd control, use Water Cannons.
Supporting evidence: the following skit:
What's your reason?
Setting: A gun shop, modern day.
A Customer walks into the gun shop and asks the Shopkeeper, "Hi, i'd like to buy a gun please."
The Shopkeeper pulls out an application form and asks the customer "Alright, what's your reason for wanting to buy a gun?"
The Customer says "I need one for personal protection."
The Shopkeeper nods. "I have just the thing for you, I guarantee you cannot get any more personal protection than this baby right here. What i'm about to show you offers so much protection, it can stop a shotgun shell."
The customer, very interested, stares at a full-size Riot Shield, the kind the police use. He scoffs. "That's not what I want, I want a gun!"
The Shopkeeper shrugs. "Are you sure? This fine piece of equipment will protect you more than a gun ever will! It's very strong, reinforced titanium and kevlar..." by now, the angry Customer has left.
Later, another Customer enters. "Hi, I need a gun."
Again, the Shopkeeper clicks his pen and pulls out an application form. "For what reason?" he asks.
The Customer hesitates, than says "Hunting."
The shopkeeper smiles. "Of course! I love to hunt. Hunting is a wonderful sport. I guarantee that this item will give you the maximum amount of satisfaction you can ever get from hunting! Here, this is the sport at its peak." And he pulls out a Crossbow, complete with crosshairs for better accuracy.
The customer shakes his head. "No, I want a gun." he states.
The shopkeeper reluctantly puts away the Crossbow. "Are you sure? With a gun, it's so...boring, just pulling a trigger. And it's unfair to the animal, with this you give the deer a chance and have to chase it for up to an hour, just like the Native Americans did back in the day! Unless of course..." He fails to finish his sentence, as the pissed off customer has left in a huff.
Later, a third customer walks in. "Hi, I'd like to buy a gun." he says.
The shopkeeper holds his pen at the ready. "For what reason, sir?" he asks.
The customer glares. "I dont need a reason, read the god **** second amendment "THE RIGHT TO BEAR ARMS." It's in the constitution you idiot!
The shopkeeper merely smiles. "Of course, I have the perfect thing for you. This gun is covered under Second Amendment laws, guaranteed!" And he holds up a 200-year-old, civil-war-era musket, complete with rusty bayonet.
The customer shrieks. "No, man! I want a Glock, a shotgun, something better than that civil war crap!"
The shopkeeper merely smiles. "I'm sorry sir, please come back when they update the second amendment to include those types of guns. Here, i'll even give you a discount..." the shopkeeper holds out a discount to the enraged customer, who tears it in half and leaves.
Fourthly, another Customer walks in. "I really need a gun, now." He says.
The Shopkeeper holds his pen and application form ready. "For what reason, sir?" he asks.
Instead of stating his reason this time, the Customer snatches the application form and looks at it. There, in the spot titled "Reasons" is a circle for "other".
"Other! That's my reason!" the Customer declares triumphantly.
The shopkeeper shrugs. "Very good answer sir." he says, while pressing a button under the counter. Two cops arrive at the shop in less than a minute and cuff the Customer.
"Hey! What the *PROFANITY* ARE YOU *PROFANITY* GUYS DOING? I'VE DONE NOTHING WRONG!" He yells, almost breaking the glass of the windows.
"Actually, you have." The Shopkeeper begins. "the "other" reason, by exclusion of the other reason, can only include wanting to kill or rob someone. Therefore, you were thinking about commiting a crime when you selected "Other" as your reason. Caught you red-handed, trying to buy the tools necessary to commiting a crime. You confessed to it when you selected "Other"! Take him downtown, please." The cops nod and take the Customer away. The last thing he hears from the Shopkeeper is "Oh, and I knew it was you all those times!"

Moral of the story: You do NOT need a gun for a particular activity. In any given activity (And I challenge you to give me a valid, legal activity for which you would need to personally own a gun), there are many other options. Why buy a gun for personal protection when a Riot Shield blocks shotgun shells? Why buy a gun for hunting when the point of hunting (and every other sport) is satisfaction, and since you get more satisfaction with more challenge, and since a crossbow offers more challenge than a gun, you'll get more satisfaction with the crossbow. Why buy a gun based on the Second Amendment when the Colonial-age guns were either giant cannons or black-powder, muzzle-loading Muskets? Did the Founding Fathers have AR-15's, and SPAZ-12 shotguns,And AK 47s, not to mention all the accessories like laser scopes and hollow-point bullets? I dont think so!

The only way you can disprove my argument is to give me a valid, LEGAL activity which requires you to personally own a gun. This excludes Skeet-shooting, because the facility can and should/will provide the gun. Until anyone can do that, YOU DONT NEED A GUN, NO ONE NEEDS GUNS! They're WAY too dangerous and make it too easy to kill someone! Why have something you dont need?

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nichodemus
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nichodemus
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And what if that certain possesion is a family heirloom that is hundreds of years old? Would you want somebody taking your grandmom's diamond broach? I think it's sentimental value is greater than it's money value.


So the sake of having a unique Constitution over the safety of people is more important to you? Very droll.
SSTG
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SSTG
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It seem to me that gun owners are paranoid and see evil everywhere.
Man that must be a pain to worry all the time and feel the need to arm oneself to the teeth.
Many of the crazy shooters who went on a killing rampage used guns that their parents had in their house so I think there's a pattern here.

404011xz
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404011xz
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No I'm just speculating. Most democrats are actually for gun control, unions, crap like that. And the Bill of RIghts was required for the Constitution, otherwise not enough states would sign it and pass it. I keep telling you, it's not guns that kill people, it's the people who hold the guns that do. Have you heard of a gun standing up on it's own and shooting somebody? No, it's those crazy people who give others the chance to say they are bad and ruin it for everyone. Nic, I honestly don't see why you hate guns? Did somebody in your family have the unforunate fate of being on the wrong side of one? If so sorry for bringing it up if it brings up bad memories

EmperorPalpatine
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EmperorPalpatine
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There is no way a banker can now manage the vast number of transactions via hand.

They did in the past, until about 60 years ago. Sometimes, when computers fail, they still need to. If the computers were down indefinitely, they'd likely hire more workers (hey, a partial solution to unemployment!), but they'd get it done.

Relying on guns for protection instead of relying on the police ensures a society that is constantly mired in suspicion

Or a society that finds police to be inadequate. 'When seconds count, police are just minutes away'. Their job isn't necessarily to prevent crime, but to apprehend those responsible when it's over.

What's the result?

An increase in other weapons.

Meaning the army knows exactly where the gun is, and they can track you. Knowing that, will you then willingly utilise it for murder?

The US has tracking systems, too. Criminals find ways around them, such as shaving off serial numbers.

we are a minority in favour of choosing other ways of dealing with conflict than using violent means to settle disputes.

How does one settle the dispute of 'I really want you dead so I can take what you have, including your kids'?
404011xz
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404011xz
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Uhh. SSTG, my dad owns a few guns and I don't get that urge to go on a rampage. I'm a very paranoid pearson, but that's just the way I am, only cure is to be around my friends then I let my guard down a bit. Just because you are paranoid doesn't make you crazy, my dad is paranoid and crazy but crazy runs in our blood.

SSTG
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SSTG
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Uhh. SSTG, my dad owns a few guns and I don't get that urge to go on a rampage. I'm a very paranoid pearson, but that's just the way I am, only cure is to be around my friends then I let my guard down a bit. Just because you are paranoid doesn't make you crazy, my dad is paranoid and crazy but crazy runs in our blood.

You obviously didn't understand what I said, please read it again.
nichodemus
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nichodemus
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They did in the past, until about 60 years ago. Sometimes, when computers fail, they still need to. If the computers were down indefinitely, they'd likely hire more workers (hey, a partial solution to unemployment!), but they'd get it done.


Given the vast amount of transactions today compared to the past, I would say no. Also, bankers are in short demand, the problem is getting people educated enough.

Or a society that finds police to be inadequate. 'When seconds count, police are just minutes away'. Their job isn't necessarily to prevent crime, but to apprehend those responsible when it's over.


In that case, why are so many nations, where the police are minutes away still safer than the US? Why not pour money into the police departments that desperately need funding, instead of spending on useless military jets which have far exceeded their cost?

An increase in other weapons


A far lesser gun homicide rate, and homicide rate overall.

The US has tracking systems, too. Criminals find ways around them, such as shaving off serial numbers.


It has a poor tracking record of all weapons. The Swiss weapons are very much army property.
404011xz
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404011xz
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I did. People don't necessarily buy guns and arm themselves to the teeth because they see evil all around. We buy moderate amounts to protect our loved ones, our lives, and our possesions. Do you see? It isn't about simply having one because you can, it's to make you feel safer and to give you the sense that if you are going to get robbed you can protect what you care about. And I find people who ussualy go crazy are the ones who take antidepresents and all those drugs that are supposed to "help" them.

404011xz
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404011xz
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Sorry to burst your bubble there but once they are out of the army that gun belongs to the pearson who used it during that war, the soldier. And don't talk to us about wasting money on the army, the president is trying to spend LESS on military, and MORE on entitlements for illegals and people who aren't willing to search for a job, Just have 7 kids and receive a check every month for it, THAT is what is wrong with this country. I'll be back tomorow. Guns aren't bad, just the people who missuse them.

SSTG
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SSTG
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The biggest issue I think is that there are way too many weirdos on the loose in the US and the fact that guns are easily accessible makes the problem worse.
BTW, people with mental problems are not exclusive to the US because in my lifetime so far I saw many crazy people on the loose in Montreal as well. It seem that North America doesn't give a **** about nutcases and I might add, homeless people which often suffer from mental illnesses.

404011xz
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404011xz
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Uhh. I've never heard of a homeless dude going on a shooting spree with a gun before. They might riot with some broken bear bottles taped to chunks of wood, but not guns.

theEPICgameKING
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theEPICgameKING
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Wow...3 pages in almost as many hours...hot topic!
I'll reiterate; Whatever you can do with a gun you can also do with other means. Take the being robbed situation. Just give the guy what he wants, then call the proper authorities. Do your part as a citizen; take note of what he looks like, maybe get his vehicle licence plate...do your part, and in a few hours the police will kindly return your stuff to you. No matter the life, it's still precious, more precious than, say, a few hundred bucks.

It isn't about simply having one because you can, it's to make you feel safer and to give you the sense that if you are going to get robbed you can protect what you care about.


Again, take a few self-defence classes. Taekwondo, karate, jujitsu, whatever. I know a way to get out of every hold. My late teacher (who died of whooping cough) said "If someone is ever desperate enough to hold a knife to you and ask for your wallet, give him your wallet. Then when his back is turned, tackle him, disarm him, and take your wallet back."
See? No need for a gun! It's all about your imagination. Guns make everything too easy: Too easy to kill, too easy to rob, too easy to hit something from a distance.
It is not our luxuries that determine us, it is our challenges.
A diamond is a piece of coal that handled stress exceptionally well.

The more you go through in life, the more life you live. Guns take all that away so easily...
nichodemus
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nichodemus
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Sorry to burst your bubble there but once they are out of the army that gun belongs to the pearson who used it during that war, the soldier.


Each such individual is required to keep his army-issued personal weapon (the 5.56x45mm Sig 550 rifle for enlisted personnel and/or the 9mm SIG-Sauer P220 semi-automatic pistol for officers, medical and postal personnel) at home. Up until October 2007, a specified personal retention quantity of government-issued personal ammunition (50 rounds 5.56 mm / 48 rounds 9mm) was issued as well, which was sealed and inspected regularly to ensure that no unauthorized use had taken place.The ammunition was intended for use while traveling to the army barracks in case of invasion.

In any case the Swiss militiamen don't keep the ammo at home.

In October 2007, the Swiss Federal Council decided that the distribution of ammunition to soldiers shall stop and that all previously issued ammo shall be returned. By March 2011, more than 99% of the ammo has been received. Only special rapid deployment units and the military police still have ammunition stored at home today.

Thanks wiki.

And don't talk to us about wasting money on the army, the president is trying to spend LESS on military, and MORE on entitlements for illegals and people who aren't willing to search for a job, Just have 7 kids and receive a check every month for it, THAT is what is wrong with this country. I'll be back tomorow. Guns aren't bad, just the people who missuse them.


Please don't skew the situation. Under Obama, the number of deportations has reached record levels, doubling the average during President George W. Bushâs first term. Immigration officials have put more pressure on businesses that hire immigrants.

What Obama has done to reach out to illegals is to offer young illegals a chance to start life in America with a work permit. It makes little sense to send illegals who have grown up, been educated in the States, and feel more attached to the States back, when they can contribute.

And reducing military spending is always spoken of as a bad thing. Well, it is bloated beyond measure and is senseless to continue adding to it.
Jacen96
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Jacen96
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This fine piece of equipment will protect you more than a gun ever will! It's very strong, reinforced titanium and kevlar..."
Against guns yes, but what about knifes, and other melee weapons?

Here, this is the sport at its peak." And he pulls out a Crossbow, complete with crosshairs for better accuracy.
Crossbows, deadly as a gun, and easier to get a hold of. Also, crossbow has a shorter range, and some people might want to shoot from a distance.

"THE RIGHT TO BEAR ARMS." It's in the constitution you idiot!
The shopkeeper merely smiles. "Of course, I have the perfect thing for you. This gun is covered under Second Amendment laws, guaranteed!" And he holds up a 200-year-old, civil-war-era musket, complete with rusty bayonet.
200 years, know your history, the united states itself is only 236 years old, the civil war was in the 1860's, not the 1810's. Also, I fail to see how the second amendment is limited to non-functional antiques. (although my family owns several that are quite functional, a civil war enfield rifle replica, purchased for use in reenactments)

"Other! That's my reason!" the Customer declares triumphantly.
The shopkeeper shrugs. "Very good answer sir." he says, while pressing a button under the counter. Two cops arrive at the shop in less than a minute and cuff the Customer.
"Hey! What the *PROFANITY* ARE YOU *PROFANITY* GUYS DOING? I'VE DONE NOTHING WRONG!" He yells, almost breaking the glass of the windows.
"Actually, you have." The Shopkeeper begins. "the "other" reason, by exclusion of the other reason, can only include wanting to kill or rob someone. Therefore, you were thinking about commiting a crime when you selected "Other" as your reason. Caught you red-handed, trying to buy the tools necessary to commiting a crime. You confessed to it when you selected "Other"! Take him downtown, please." The cops nod and take the Customer away. The last thing he hears from the Shopkeeper is "Oh, and I knew it was you all those times!"
Arresting someone for doing nothing is against the law, as he had committed no crimes.

My response to the OP, don't feel like analyzing and responding to the newest posts.

~~~Darth Caedus
nichodemus
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nichodemus
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200 years, know your history, the united states itself is only 236 years old, the civil war was in the 1860's, not the 1810's. Also, I fail to see how the second amendment is limited to non-functional antiques. (although my family owns several that are quite functional, a civil war enfield rifle replica, purchased for use in reenactments)


The Forefathers could not possibly see how advanced gun technology would get. It would be irresponsible to immediately assume they would have written in the Amendment if they knew what was coming.
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