ForumsWEPRnot believing means send to hell?

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xAyjAy
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xAyjAy
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let us say there could be places like heaven and hell...

..what would happen with people who can not believe after they die? what happens with people who never had the chance to believe anything after they died? what happens with people who forgot that there is a god (altzheimers) or people who are mentally handicapped or people in a coma when they die?

my point is that believe can not be the only "thing" that decides wether they get into heaven or hell (if these places even exist).

just a thought i had today.

  • 156 Replies
MageGrayWolf
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MageGrayWolf
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But, I may add, atheists can be just as hard-headed and stubborn as the blind believers, who give christianity a bad name....religion in general.


It's hard headed to ask for reasonable evidence?
thebluerabbit
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thebluerabbit
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Just goes to show that most people who do not believe in anything have no knowledge of what they don't believe.


actually, from what ive noticed its the non-believers who know more about most religions then those who believe in them.

and in my opinion EVERY christian who cant read and understand hebrew knows less then 50% of his own religion. its really funny how those who are the most "dedicated" to their religion know the least
Wyrzen
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Wyrzen
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actually, from what ive noticed its the non-believers who know more about most religions then those who believe in them.


Which is funny because it's definitely the opposite.

It's hard headed to ask for reasonable evidence?


No, I think it is perfectly reasonable to ask for evidence. That's the whole debate, wanting evidence. I just don't like how sometimes goes about. But there's a difference between asking or requiring evidence, versus demanding you whip your God out of your back pocket or proclaiming your own personal jihad like a few do.
Kasic
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Kasic
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Which is funny because it's definitely the opposite.


Except it's not, and here's why:

Nonbelievers who argue against religion research it so they can make valid points.

Believers rarely delve deeply into their own religion, believing themselves to already be right. They only do moderately well when it comes to mainstream questions which have been drilled into their heads again and again.

But there's a difference between asking or requiring evidence, versus demanding you whip your God out of your back pocket or proclaiming your own personal jihad like a few do.


No one is demanding you make God do something. We only want solid, objective evidence that gives a logical reason to entertain the idea that your specific belief is the right one and that what you claim is plausible.

Except no religion can do that. Personal testimonies and vague interpretations from scripture are all religion has.
partydevil
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partydevil
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That's the whole debate, wanting evidence.

the debate isn't there if there was some evidence for your claims.

it lacks evidence and you or god can't demand us to believe in it, aslong it doesn't give any evidence.
EmperorPalpatine
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EmperorPalpatine
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Which is funny because it's definitely the opposite.

10-25% (high estimate) of Christians have read the whole bible.
This counters your statement.
OperationNilo
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OperationNilo
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Sorry for the late response, my internet died.

Why is God so petty as to decide eternal torment just because His feelings were hurt?


You definetely don't understand the concept that the christian god is a loving one that actually cares about us.. If he gives us that which we need but we don't, and instead use the decision given to us with no obligation to run outside raping people, wouldn't you on his place be seriously offended? And don't be as shallow as to call an offense 'feelings'-we're talking eternal punishment here.

Especially considering omniscience, knowing in advance exactly who would offend Him and where, when, why, and how they would offend Him, then allowing (more specifically "willing&quot scenario X to occur.


Because, as already stated, he gives us the choice to carry out the action and accepts it.

God still was the one to set up the system so that would be the outcome.


No person is obliged to go to hell, you know?

How would that make it a concentration camp?


Being taken someplace by force.

This God seems pretty thin skinned and petty if he get's offended for eternity because, for example someone picked up sticks on the wrong day. or the worst thing you can possibly do, deny him. With also makes him sound like an egomaniac on top of it all.


Thing is, he doesn't. The problem with most people is that they think that god will never forgive them. Wrong. There is a funny little thing called 'being repentant'. If someone doesn't want to be forgiven- as shown through his actions-, then how the heck does he want god to forgive him?

So he is making the final decision of whether you are deserving of hell?


Indeed.
HahiHa
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HahiHa
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You definetely don't understand the concept that the christian god is a loving one that actually cares about us.. If he gives us that which we need but we don't, and instead use the decision given to us with no obligation to run outside raping people, wouldn't you on his place be seriously offended? And don't be as shallow as to call an offense 'feelings'-we're talking eternal punishment here.

Stop seeing the eternal punishment thing as a necessary constant. God set up the system, he can change it. It's up to him and his hurt feelings.

Speaking of which, I tihnk you don't get the principle of an all-loving deity. All-loving means his love is unconditional, which is often said about god's love for us. But if his love is unconditional, he would just say, "here, do whatever you want, I still love you and won't put you to hell for doing nasty stuff". If he is loving, he has no need to "be offended", as you put it (which is putting humans feeling on a seemingly non-human deity btw). If he gets offended by people doing nasty stuff, why did he give us free will? He has to know some people will offend him, he supposedly created us after all. So he knows by giving us free will he will have to put people to hell. This doesn't make any sense.
EmperorPalpatine
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EmperorPalpatine
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And don't be as shallow as to call an offense 'feelings'


Offend
1.cause somebody anger, resentment, or hurt: to hurt somebody's feelings, or cause resentment, irritation, anger, or displeasure

What else should I call it?

and instead use the decision given to us with no obligation to run outside raping people, wouldn't you on his place be seriously offended?

Not if I created everything leading to that scenario with full knowledge that it would occur in that exact way.
OperationNilo
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OperationNilo
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But if his love is unconditional, he would just say, "here, do whatever you want, I still love you and won't put you to hell for doing nasty stuff".


That would be a God that thinks 'I don't care about you, do as you may'.

If he is loving, he has no need to "be offended", as you put it (which is putting humans feeling on a seemingly non-human deity btw).


I assume you are a guy? If you have a girlfriend and you give her your utmost love, and suddenly she 'cheats' on you, wouldn't you be offended?

If he gets offended by people doing nasty stuff, why did he give us free will?


Exactly! Because he loves us!

He has to know some people will offend him, he supposedly created us after all. So he knows by giving us free will he will have to put people to hell. This doesn't make any sense.


Thing is, he made humans to be perfect. As impossible as it may seem, it must be possible to be perfect back, right? And you reach that perfection in heaven, away from sin. While you are on Earth, you are given the choice. Of course, most choose the 'nice' path of going to hell.
OperationNilo
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OperationNilo
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Ninja'd

What else should I call it?


I was not talking about the literal meaning of the word...

Not if I created everything leading to that scenario with full knowledge that it would occur in that exact way.


Well then, good thing you aren't God.
EmperorPalpatine
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EmperorPalpatine
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If you have a girlfriend and you give her your utmost love, and suddenly she 'cheats' on you, wouldn't you be offended?

If I was truly all loving, then not at all.
EmperorPalpatine
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EmperorPalpatine
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Ninja'd as well.

I was not talking about the literal meaning of the word...

Then what meta-meaning were you talking about?

Well then, good thing you aren't God.

So a god that created everything with full knowledge of the way everything would ever be, including the bad, has no fault?
OperationNilo
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OperationNilo
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If I was truly all loving, then not at all.


Has that actually occurred to you? Can you give your opinion on the matter?
OperationNilo
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OperationNilo
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Ninja'd...again! Stop it haha.

Then what meta-meaning were you talking about?


The act of deliberately going against God, there must be a word for it that I don't know. Oh, right. Sin.

So a god that created everything with full knowledge of the way everything would ever be, including the bad, has no fault?


What do you mean with 'has no fault'?
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