ForumsWEPRLegitimacy of the Medical Realm

29 4622
Stormslice
offline
Stormslice
42 posts
580

So I was wondering about this the other day. Why is it that so many people are being given anti-psychotics and anti-depressants these days? Moreover, why are they being given specifically to teens and young adults? Over the history of the human race, we've never done anything like this. And why is it, if the treatments are legitimate, that so many teens and young adults are depressed or psychotic? What has changed?
Well, a lot has changed in not a lot of time. We now have the internet, television, and social networking. And, yes, cyberbullying is at an all time high. However, I've heard of people who have gone through much, much worse in their lives and they went on to live their lives. Do things affect us psychologically? Of course, but the people I've seen have gotten past it. They came to grips with their situation and lived their lives. So what has changed with the most recent generation? What has made this generation like they are?
I have a theory, and I will put it here, but I would like to know yours as well.
My theory is that the current generation has not had to go through the reality and brutality of life. They escape it using the new technology of computers and computer gaming. I'm not saying that an occasional escape from everyday life is bad, on the contrary, I am all behind that. However, too much of it can cause serious expectational viewpoint problems, which is what we see today. People expect the world to be perfect and always work their way. This is an unrealistic expectation and, thus, the current generation gets depressed that their fantasy world does not come true.
So, the medical realm is handed this problem and the doctors don't go to the source, instead they mask the symptoms. If they are doing this with depression, then what else are they doing it with? What other conditions can be simply fixed, but the doctors just aren't telling you or they just don't know how to fix? After that comes the question of if the doctors really know what they claim to know. And if they don't, then why are we trusting our livelihood with people who don't know what they need to? Will you put someone who hasn't been trained into a F-22 fight jet? No. So why are we putting someone who ACTS like they are trained, but who just mask the symptoms with our livelihood? We shouldn't. So I am challenging the medical realm. I am standing here saying "I don't trust you with my life." If all they are going to do is give me drugs, then I'm not going to go to them. What ever happened to the rule "if a strange person offers you drugs, say no?" It's the same principle. If I want drugs, I'll go to a dealer, ok doc?
Who has similar feelings? Stand up and be counted.

  • 29 Replies
EmperorPalpatine
offline
EmperorPalpatine
9,410 posts
2,730

Why is it that so many people are being given anti-psychotics and anti-depressants these days?

Maybe it's because there weren't as many people before. The US population has more than doubled since 1950 and suicide rates have declined since then. Among younger people, it has declined since the '90s. That could mean treatment/prevention is working to some extent.

My theory is that the current generation has not had to go through the reality and brutality of life.

The most at-risk age groups are 35-44 and 45-54. My theory is that the media feasts on anything that involves kids.

and the doctors don't go to the source, instead they mask the symptoms.

What do you mean by this?
09philj
offline
09philj
2,878 posts
3,160

I don't trust the "medical realm" as you call it either, but for rather different reasons. I trust doctors, and understand they're under a lot of pressure to perform and are overworked, and it's often simplest to hand people some pills and tell them they'll be fine. In most cases, this is fine.

No, my problems come from the people who make the pills. This is because they are highly unscrupulous money grabbers who'll do anything for their own gain. I could explain it myself, but this video does it better:
[url=http://www.badscience.net/2012/09/i-did-a-talk-at-ted-about-drug-companies-and-hidden-data/]

09philj
offline
09philj
2,878 posts
3,160

Let's try posting that link again:
[url=http://www.badscience.net/2012/09/i-did-a-talk-at-ted-about-drug-companies-and-hidden-data/]

09philj
offline
09philj
2,878 posts
3,160

[url=http://www.badscience.net/2012/09/i-did-a-talk-at-ted-about-drug-companies-and-hidden-data/]

EmperorPalpatine
offline
EmperorPalpatine
9,410 posts
2,730

Fixed (gotta add [/url] at the end).

SSTG
offline
SSTG
12,645 posts
9,915

I think kids have new challenges now with all the new technology but I don't think they're worse than before.
News travel faster with the Internet so it seem that there are more problems than before.
Also crooked drug companies are out of control now so they basically do whatever they want, being supported by crooked congressmen.
I think some doctors are in for the money they get from prescribing unnecessary meds.
Parents needs to choose their doctors carefully and avoid the weasels.
There are still good doctors out there, you just need to find them.

Sonatavarius
offline
Sonatavarius
1,326 posts
2,150

You guys are touching on something that's at least partly true. Have you ever considered that regardless of what a healthcare provider does⦠if they don't prescribe pain pills or other types of meds to treat the symptoms (and not necessarily the problems) that they won't get paid at all? I've overheard physicians ranting over how they can't not treat pain. They can treat and fix the underlying cause, but if the patient still says they're in pain then the gov't/insurance may not pay them. If the world would stop micromanaging everything physicians do then maybe it wouldn't be so expensive to see one. Maybe a good portion of the problems people have with the medical field would disappear?

Sonatavarius
offline
Sonatavarius
1,326 posts
2,150

a necessary double

One of the differences in a dealer and a doc that you seem to be ignoring is that dealer's haven't been formally educated on how to make the meds or how to properly prescribe them. You also seem to be equating recreational drugs to drugs that are intended to be used therapeutically (even tho they may be the same drug but used under different contexts). Are you also implying that all maladies can be cured without drugs? Good luck thereâ¦

You make way too many assumptions. Doctors are trained in dealing with these problems. The formalized field of psychology was started in the 1870s. We're only just now understanding the biochemical natures of these disorders and how they impact the brain. Sometimes people need a helping push to get going and pharmacological agents are then prescribed⦠but they're also referred to psychiatrists and psychologists to follow up with treatment of the cause. It's much harder to quit smoking for most people when they attempt to do it cold turkey than it is when they have help⦠i.e. a drug and or a support group. You have no idea about what goes on in the medical realm, so I can't trust you to internet!

Stormslice
offline
Stormslice
42 posts
580

Um, actually, the doctors are giving depressed people drugs that are 10 times more addictive than cocaine and much more harmful. And, yes, all maladies can be cured using non drugs. I have lived the reality of both the professional medical realm as well as the personal medical realm. I have never felt better than when I am not going to the doctor, doing things that the doctors say are flat out fatal. For example, I drink more than 3 mg of Iodine every day. It's Nascent Iodine, which means that it is deactivated. also, doctors obviously haven't been taught the right things about the drugs that they are prescribing. And I disagree. I actually think that the drug dealers may know more about the drugs they are pushing than the doctors. The drug dealers know what the drugs do and they know how the drugs feel. They see the affects of the drugs they push every day and they are honest about the stuff that they are pushing. The doctors aren't. I would rather have a drug dealer pushing stuff on me than a doctor.
Also, you say that I don't know what goes on in the medical realm. Fair enough, I don't, but my mom spent years in nursing school. She knew and still knows what it's like. She has seen that world and she saw what they were doing. She has been researching alternative medicine for almost 30 years. And by the way, the things that we have found make sense on a cellular level whereas the stuff that the doctors are feeding you don't. You can call me what you will. Call me a conspiracy theorist or whatever. We've seen that life and we know what it's like. I can speak from personal experience. I've lived it. The doctors haven't. If that doesn't qualify me to say these things, then the doctors are less qualified than field mice in their area of medicine. You can heal yourself, you just have to know how. You don't need doctors.

09philj
offline
09philj
2,878 posts
3,160

the things that we have found make sense on a cellular level

Things that work on a cellular level don't always work on full sized people. Anyway, without proper evidence, I can't agree or disagree. As a man of science you shouldn't mind giving out the methods and results of your experiments, in their complete form... should you?

all maladies can be cured using non drugs

Please explain what a non drug is.

the doctors are giving depressed people drugs that are 10 times more addictive than cocaine and much more harmful

I'd like to see some evidence for this claim before I can judge it.

In the world of medicine, things should be evidence based, and all the evidence should be available for scrutiny by everyone, all the time.
Sonatavarius
offline
Sonatavarius
1,326 posts
2,150

http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/cells.png

I wish you the best of luck later in life when you're actually starting to get sick. May all of your foot pressure points and homeopathy pills serve you well. Just because they take the drugs doesn't mean they see how it works on everyone. If a doctor is a drug dealer (it's really the pharmacistâ¦derp) then doctors give drugs and follow their patients constantly and they get to see what happens to their patient every step of the way (unless it's outpatient, but even then they come back and tell them all about it). Do you even know how to science?â¦.b/c it doesn't sound like it. 10-20 years of research and tests have to be done before drugs can even be used on people, and that's not even the point where it's available to the public. The drugs are regulated and unless there was a mistake in the packaging you know exactly how much of whatever it is that you're getting. Your oh so great drug dealers use all sorts of nasty chemicals as fillers and ingredients to make their drugs. why? because it's cheaper and they don't have to be around when you die from taking it.

Nurses learn a lot in nursing school, but the amount they learn is almost akin to the amount of drug in a homeopathic pill compared to actual medication. I've known a lot of nurses that have gone back and gotten into medical school. They've known a good deal about the drugs and what they're used for, but they knew almost nothing from their formalized nursing education about how the actual organs worked.

If the mechanism of action of a drug is known, then medical students have to learn it. If there are known side effects, then medical students have to learn them. If there are known drug-drug interactions, then medical students have to learn them. I don't know why you think any random common drug dealer is any better than a doctor. If a drug dealer knows anything about drugs then it's because he's googled the exact same information that has been gleaned from all of the studies that doctors have to learn. â¦and if he hasn't, then by all means take your chances with someone who only has his/her small amount of personal experience over the people who have studied the research of thousands of researchers.

There are people that abuse the system, but maybe they wouldn't if the system wasn't abusing them. I will have spent almost 30 years of my life and acquired almost 500k of debt (med school ain't cheap) to get to where I'm a doctorâ¦. but people want me to work for peanuts. Maybe if you don't want me making so much money then maybe you should fight to lower my bills⦠or maybe you should actually get into a field that's worth working in if you're so jealous. (it's ridiculous how many people go into over saturated easy to get into fields and wonder why they can't make any money)

How would you treat meningitis or acute hypersensitivity reactions? water pills? rubbing the person's feet?

How would you treat a parkinson's patient?

If all things can be fixed, then how are you going to fix a transected spinal cord?

Kasic
offline
Kasic
5,598 posts
3,675

Why is it that so many people are being given anti-psychotics and anti-depressants these days


1) We are more aware of what kinds of psychological problems people can have, and are thus diagnosing more.
2) Previously, there has been a far heavier societal stigma to be on medication. There still is one, but it's less.
3) Patients demand treatment from the doctor, and while therapy is always the go-to treatment for mental illnesses (medication is to help mitigate/control symptoms) the patient often wants a quick fix, when there is none.

Moreover, why are they being given specifically to teens and young adults?


For the reasons I stated above, and because society wants to "fix" everyone. Teens especially are under a lot of pressure in how they perceive they should be acting/feeling and think that if they aren't a charismatic extrovert, something is wrong with them.

Over the history of the human race, we've never done anything like this.


We've never had the medical knowledge to try before.

And why is it, if the treatments are legitimate, that so many teens and young adults are depressed or psychotic?


People have always had these illnesses. They just weren't recognized as being such and weren't acknowledged as anything more than personal weakness/laziness/anger problems.

My theory is that the current generation has not had to go through the reality and brutality of life. They escape it using the new technology of computers and computer gaming. I'm not saying that an occasional escape from everyday life is bad, on the contrary, I am all behind that. However, too much of it can cause serious expectational viewpoint problems, which is what we see today. People expect the world to be perfect and always work their way. This is an unrealistic expectation and, thus, the current generation gets depressed that their fantasy world does not come true.


This is absolutely baseless and shows little to no understanding about mental illnesses. Every generation thinks following ones are worse or lazier or less educated, when we can show that it's the opposite usually. We are progressing. There are less people committing violent crimes and suicide in developed nations that have strong healthcare systems that treat mental illness and don't think having one means someone is weak or lazy. Depression in particular is -not- caused by someone who's never known hardship having to face it, it's a chemical imbalance in the brain over a long duration of time that makes the person unable to find contentment/joy/excitement. People have used escapes all throughout history, alcoholism being one of the more common ones.

So, the medical realm is handed this problem and the doctors don't go to the source, instead they mask the symptoms


They try to. Patients don't let them, because they think they don't need treatment. They come complaining about their symptoms, then just ask for a pill because they think it will fix everything.

What other conditions can be simply fixed, but the doctors just aren't telling you or they just don't know how to fix?


Mental illnesses can't be simply fixed. There is no known drug that anyone with depression can take that will suddenly make that depression go away. Everyone is different.

After that comes the question of if the doctors really know what they claim to know.


They do.

No. So why are we putting someone who ACTS like they are trained, but who just mask the symptoms with our livelihood?


Why are we letting someone who acts like they know what they're talking about make implied paranoid statements while promoting homeopathic medicine, which is nothing more than the placebo effect combined with supplying basic vitamins to one's diet?

If all they are going to do is give me drugs, then I'm not going to go to them.


That's not all they are going to do - that's all your insurance is going to cover. People don't want to go to therapy because they a, don't think they need it, b, don't want to spend the time doing it, c, don't want to pay for it, and d, think that going to therapy means admitting something is "wrong" with them, as if it's their fault for being sick.

Um, actually, the doctors are giving depressed people drugs that are 10 times more addictive than cocaine and much more harmful.


I'd like a source about that.

And, yes, all maladies can be cured using non drugs.


You now have malaria. Good luck.

For example, I drink more than 3 mg of Iodine every day. It's Nascent Iodine


I can find absolutely nothing about the effects of nascent iodine that has been proven to have any sort of effects in a controlled study, except it potentially causing hyperthyroidism if you take over a few hundred micrograms a day and being good to have in case of radiation. As such, I highly suggest you stop taking that much.

which means that it is deactivated


Uh, no, it doesn't. It means almost the exact opposite, in fact.
Nascent State

doctors obviously haven't been taught the right things about the drugs that they are prescribing.


Judging by what you've said so far, you're the one who has no idea what is going on, and you're just seeing that they're saying something different from what you believe and conclude they don't know the right things.

And I disagree. I actually think that the drug dealers may know more about the drugs they are pushing than the doctors. The drug dealers know what the drugs do and they know how the drugs feel. They see the affects of the drugs they push every day and they are honest about the stuff that they are pushing. The doctors aren't. I would rather have a drug dealer pushing stuff on me than a doctor.


Who are "the drug dealers?" Are we talking about pharmaceutical companies, or street corner coke sellers?

And by the way, the things that we have found make sense on a cellular level whereas the stuff that the doctors are feeding you don't.


Explain how homeopathic/alternative medicine makes sense on a molecular level. Because how molecules interact is how effects happen.

You can heal yourself, you just have to know how. You don't need doctors.


*Points to third world countries with few doctors, where death rates are far higher.*

Homeopathy/alternative medicine at best helps people because they start taking various vitamins that supplement deficiencies they had before. Everything else is the Placebo Effect. All the crap and random stuff in alternative medicine can be quite harmful (like your massive Iodine dosage that's going to give you hyperthyroidism eventually).
Stormslice
offline
Stormslice
42 posts
580

How would you treat meningitis or acute hypersensitivity reactions? water pills? rubbing the person's feet?

How would you treat a parkinson's patient?


No, take baking soda. Put about a tablespoon in a glass for meningitis. How do I know? I've had it. It's actually been almost exactly a year since I've had it.

As for most every other sickness and mental malady, it can be cured with the right vitamins and minerals, not drugs. Magnesium Chloride, Iodine, selenium, sodium bicarbonate, water, vitamin c, and a few others. It's a complex process, but it uses simple ingredients.


For the reasons I stated above, and because society wants to "fix" everyone. Teens especially are under a lot of pressure in how they perceive they should be acting/feeling and think that if they aren't a charismatic extrovert, something is wrong with them.


You mean, make little slaves that can't think for themselves. Yeah, I don't want to be "fixed." I'm not a machine. And I'm not turning into a societal puppet. I actually have a movie for you to watch. It's called "At World's End." You should really watch it.

I'd like a source about that.


OK, here's the guy that has been in the medial realm and who is now rejecting it as well. Oh, and he's a doctor. A doctor who saw what all was being done to people and who decided to fight it. Is that good enough for you? Of course it won't be. You've been taken in by the lies. http://drsircus.com/

I can find absolutely nothing about the effects of nascent iodine that has been proven to have any sort of effects in a controlled study, except it potentially causing hyperthyroidism if you take over a few hundred micrograms a day and being good to have in case of radiation. As such, I highly suggest you stop taking that much.


And why do you think you can't find anything on it? Cause the pharmaceutical companies don't want you to know. Your body needs iodine for a number of different functions. You would strongly suggest it. Are you a doctor? Because I could really see you being a doctor.

Uh, no, it doesn't. It means almost the exact opposite, in fact.
Nascent State


Uh, you obviously didn't read the site that you posted. It said that elements in a Nascent state tend to be more reactive. Iodine is an exception to that rule as it actually makes the iodine MORE stable and LESS reactive. It also allows the iodine to be better metabolized by the body. Oh, and by the way, you posted a wikipedia page. All teachers know that that is an unreliable source. So, wrong answer, try again.

*Points to third world countries with few doctors, where death rates are far higher.*


OK, but how do you explain the rising rate of both cancer and diabetes and autism in the U.S? Would you care to explain why every year, there are more and more problems with this? You can't use your excuse that they have always been there because that is patently false. If there were this many people getting cancer and diabetes every year in the past, then non of us would be here, because the human race would have vanished.

like your massive Iodine dosage that's going to give you hyperthyroidism eventually).


Actually, there is nothing to prove that. That was a single Brazilian study that was NEVER replicated. As in no one COULD replicate it. Here's one that CAN be and HAS been replicated, though. There were people, in a study, that were given up to 6 GRAMS of Lugal's iodine a day, which isn't even Nascent Iodine. THERE WERE NO ADVERSE AFFECTS ON THE PEOPLE FROM THE IODINE. So, the study that you are siting is going against your own statement that all studies in the medical realm need to be replicated BY ALL. Again, wrong answer, try again.

And with that, I'm tried of arguing, so I'll talk about the rest of everyone's arguments later.
Stormslice
offline
Stormslice
42 posts
580

No, take baking soda. Put about a tablespoon in a glass for meningitis. How do I know? I've had it. It's actually been almost exactly a year since I've had it.


Sorry, I didn't put the whole thing here. It's 1 tablespoon of baking soda every hour, alternating with 1 tablespoon of bentonite clay. Also, slather some Magnesium chloride over yourself about every two hours. Also, monitor your ph using urine strips and make sure your ph doesn't go above 8.
Kasic
offline
Kasic
5,598 posts
3,675

No, take baking soda. Put about a tablespoon in a glass for meningitis.


...Uh. No. That won't do anything.

How do I know? I've had it. It's actually been almost exactly a year since I've had it.


I assure you, you did not have meningitis. You probably had the flu or a cold.

As for most every other sickness and mental malady, it can be cured with the right vitamins and minerals, not drugs. Magnesium Chloride, Iodine, selenium, sodium bicarbonate, water, vitamin c, and a few others. It's a complex process, but it uses simple ingredients.


No. That makes absolutely no sense. These aren't magical potions you combine together that create varying effects. They're simple compounds that don't do what you're saying they do. Take a chemistry class.

OK, here's the guy that has been in the medial realm and who is now rejecting it as well. Oh, and he's a doctor. A doctor who saw what all was being done to people and who decided to fight it. Is that good enough for you? Of course it won't be. You've been taken in by the lies. http://drsircus.com/


Link didn't work.

And why do you think you can't find anything on it? Cause the pharmaceutical companies don't want you to know. Your body needs iodine for a number of different functions.


The pharmaceutical companies can't control the media or every single doctor. This is the basis of any conspiracy theory...the belief that a single entity has almost supreme control over everything, but the "enlightened" know the "truth" and everyone else is being "lied to." It's the exact same with the Illuminati, JFK nuts, and everything else like that...

Yes, your body needs iodine, but not that much.

You would strongly suggest it. Are you a doctor? Because I could really see you being a doctor.


I'm not a doctor. I am someone who can use basic informational gathering skills and check reputable sources for said information.

Uh, you obviously didn't read the site that you posted. It said that elements in a Nascent state tend to be more reactive. Iodine is an exception to that rule as it actually makes the iodine MORE stable and LESS reactive. It also allows the iodine to be better metabolized by the body. Oh, and by the way, you posted a wikipedia page. All teachers know that that is an unreliable source. So, wrong answer, try again.


1) Nascent state means that is has less electrons than neutral charge, ie, it's more electronegative, ie, making it more reactive usually.
2) I could find nothing saying there's an exception for Iodine. Give me a link. The only thing that comes up when I search for it is a bunch of homeopathic websites that say "it's good for you and does this!" while trying to sell it/recommend it.
3) I was using wikipedia for basic information on a definition of something.
4) Wikipedia is unreliable because anyone can change the information there - the sources it uses can be valid.

OK, but how do you explain the rising rate of both cancer and diabetes and autism in the U.S?


Exposure to various chemicals. Most of it is probably through our foods, which are increasingly treated with different types of preservatives, anti pesticides, and other pollutants. Some of it is probably through medication.

There were people, in a study, that were given up to 6 GRAMS of Lugal's iodine a day, which isn't even Nascent Iodine. THERE WERE NO ADVERSE AFFECTS ON THE PEOPLE FROM THE IODINE.


I'd like a link to that study. I'll look into more on it too.

Sorry, I didn't put the whole thing here. It's 1 tablespoon of baking soda every hour, alternating with 1 tablespoon of bentonite clay. Also, slather some Magnesium chloride over yourself about every two hours. Also, monitor your ph using urine strips and make sure your ph doesn't go above 8.


Care to explain how baking soda kills bacteria? Or how pouring Magnesium Chloride on yourself affects anything inside the body?
Showing 1-15 of 29