Forums → WEPR → Bullied teen fatally stabs bully
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The early reports indicate that the suspect, 14 year old Noel Estevez, had been bullied numerous times and to the point where he had attempted suicide. Numerous neighbors also stated that he'd asked them to watch out for the 'big kids' and come help him if they saw anything. The actual incident was apparently a fight, in which the victim, also 14, was stabbed multiple times by Estevez with a kitchen knife. Estevez is being charged as an adult with second degree murder and manslaughter.
Personally, I'm of the opinion that this was a failure of any adult that had insight to the situation, particularly school administrators for not keeping an eye out for bullying, especially after the attempted suicide. I can't say I would blame Estevez for standing up for himself, but since it isn't clear if this particular attack was provoked or a deliberate confrontation or not, and I'm not sure if self-defense applied to previous incidents, I'm not to decided on whether or not he's actually guilty. I'm sure that he shouldn't be charged as an adult though, not as a 14 year old.
Thoughts?
- 26 Replies
then they should try him in the adult court.
That's the thing though. They "try him as an adult." Not simply in the court adults go to, but as if he were one. Except he isn't. Can a 14 year old be aware that murder is wrong? Of course. Is a 14 year old as mature, cognitively developed, and capable of reacting in the same way as someone years older? No.
Pretty sure some adults still act like they're minors.
^^^^ 18 is a laughable age to be called an adult.
Is a 14 year old as mature, cognitively developed, and capable of reacting in the same way as someone years older? No.
It really depends, does it not? People develop differently. It's uncommon, but I wouldn't say impossible for a 14 year old to be as mentally developed and mature as an adult.
It really depends, does it not? People develop differently. It's uncommon, but I wouldn't say impossible for a 14 year old to be as mentally developed and mature as an adult.
Which is why shoehorning people into one system or another based on their age is a terrible idea.
hmmmm reminds me of an anime i watched...
maybe im taking it too far but you see... in the begining you pretty much see how everybody are actually tied to several murders and how they are going to kill a character, then in the very end he takes the defensive, kills 2 people and flees.
after many episodes you realise that that character suffered from awful paranoia+unexplained murders in that place+weird behaviour of people=murder.
you start to feel bad for everybody. you dont hate those he thought would kill him because you realise they were victims... but since you saw it at first from his point of view you also understand his fear and how he reacted...
thing is, if its not just blown over to protect him, if he really thought he would be killed by that bully i think its still self defense and should be treated more gently.
if its really that level then its psychological and he needs that kind of help. wouldnt we all kill a person if we felt we were driven in a corner? we might be wrong about it but isnt it pretty natural?
is he guilty? definitely. but i can sympathise (spelled wrong?) for him.
again, this is if he really was in that mental state.
what do we have law and jail for? justice? punishment?
if its to punish evil... well... that kid isnt evil and should be let go.
if its actually to keep society safe then the best thing would be to get him some treatment no?
again, this all might be just something his lawer claims in order to make people feel pity for the kid. if thats the case, he should be treated like any other 14 year old whod kill a person.
Which article did you read? Estevez used a knife and it was recovered by the police
There is several videos and tape recording on your article. In there, someone mentioned the victim of having readied a screwdriver of sorts to attack the assailant. Try the left/right news video in my link i gave on this post
Not in the article, cite your source.
This
if its really that level then its psychological and he needs that kind of help. wouldnt we all kill a person if we felt we were driven in a corner? we might be wrong about it but isnt it pretty natural?
You can't just kill anyone that "drive you to a corner". We have correctional systems designed specifically to handle that kinds of person. If you do kill them, then the same correctional systems will persecute you. You will gain nothing from killing them, just more suffering.Also, you don't have to kill them. let karma do the punishment. "Wrong" person would always be punished in the right time
About the maturity thing, i highly doubt that this Estevez guy is actually an "adult" or should be tried in the adult court. From all the articles i was looking into, he just doesn't seem to be in the correct adult "mentality"; with his overreaction to the "bullies", his suicidal attempt, and inability to stand for himself when the presumed "bullying" takes place. He should be charged and trialed in the juvenile court.
this is what happens when parents and schools fail to fix problems, if people would put more of an effort to help people, then there wouldnt be suicides and killings all the **** time
You can't just kill anyone that "drive you to a corner". We have correctional systems designed specifically to handle that kinds of person. If you do kill them, then the same correctional systems will persecute you. You will gain nothing from killing them, just more suffering.Also, you don't have to kill them. let karma do the punishment. "Wrong" person would always be punished in the right time
you took "drive you to a corner" way too lightly. that term pretty much means that you cant flee in a flee/fight situation. which means you either die or fight. if we felt that we will either die or kill wouldnt we kill? even if someone is so gentle, its just an instinct to protect yourself that way.
if we felt that we will either die or kill wouldnt we kill? even if someone is so gentle, its just an instinct to protect yourself that way.
I'm with @thebluerabbit on this. I mean, if you felt completely threatened and couldn't get out of where you were being threatened, in that moment you're probably not going to have faith in such
correctional systemsremoving him and returning you to safety. They're not there to intervene, it's just you and your instinct. If i felt my life was in danger, i would fight. It's either flight or fight, and if you've nowhere to go that eliminates the other option. Then it would be die or fight,
I also agree however that he should be charged as a Juvenile.
I think the kid did what was right and should not be punished. He stood up to a bully. This is what makes me so angry with America, we have all of these campaigns that say "stand up to bullying", but that's all they say. They don't give proper support and contacts for kids to go to. If I went and told a kid to stand up to bullying, the kid would, without a doubt, interpret that as going and beating the tar out of him. And, what better way than to use an equalizer. The bully got what he deserved. I just would have personally favored a baseball bat.
I think the kid did what was right and should not be punished. He stood up to a bully. This is what makes me so angry with America, we have all of these campaigns that say "stand up to bullying", but that's all they say. They don't give proper support and contacts for kids to go to. If I went and told a kid to stand up to bullying, the kid would, without a doubt, interpret that as going and beating the tar out of him. And, what better way than to use an equalizer. The bully got what he deserved. I just would have personally favored a baseball bat.
I can see what your argument is, however, another 14 year old is dead. You can standup against bullying without someone ending up in a coffin.
[quote]"I always used to see Timothy and Noel together. And they always were laughing, and always going places together. And all of a sudden this happens; itâs crazy,"
and the defense attorney claims that:
"They were after him for three months, and they couldnât find him because he stayed behind closed doors,â Poulos told reporters, including WCBS 880â²s Jim Smith. âHe came out of closed doors, and they sicced on him.â
Both don't match up with each other, and both sounds like a bluff or a lie. which one is right?
[/quote]
According to the article you linked, they were once friends, then the bullying began. As for the neighbor that said
"[Crump] is not that type of person... Heâs not a troublemaker. Heâs not."
, the victim was previously suspended for another fight in which he punched another student's teeth out.
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