ForumsWEPRRefugees. Let them in or kick them out?

49 3899
Alp_Ehni
offline
Alp_Ehni
315 posts
Blacksmith

As a person living in a very, VERY conservative part of Austria, refugees are not really welcome in the minds of many that live here.

Which is on the part of me and my family, not the case. I try to show my support of refugees by baking a cake for the local refugee center, raising my word in town discussions and so on. (Yes I'm 15 but still invited to those discussions / meetings)

So I just wanted to know what you, my dear Armorgames people, think of the whole refugee problematic.

  • 49 Replies
FishPreferred
offline
FishPreferred
3,057 posts
Archduke

The day we deny the refugees their means of escape from the horrors of war is the day sacrifice our humanity for our perceived safety. And that day everything changes. How can we call ourselves 'human' after that?
By not confusing humanity with humaneness.
HahiHa
offline
HahiHa
7,754 posts
Grand Duke

also.. the ease that we take all those people in concerns me. it is very easy for isis to infiltrate europe incognito..

Some have used this as an argument for stronger border controls and shared fake pictures for 'support', but in my opinion this is an unnecessary worry (besides being so far unfounded). Daesh doesn't need to send undercover jihadists along with refugees; terrorist attacks in western countries are performed by indoctrinated radicalized converts, our very own fellow countrymen. And those people are usually already followed by the different intel organisations. The real danger is the propaganda on the internet, and that has nothing to do with refugees.
DaGoblin
offline
DaGoblin
50 posts
Peasant


Some have used this as an argument for stronger border controls and shared fake pictures for 'support', but in my opinion this is an unnecessary worry (besides being so far unfounded). Daesh doesn't need to send undercover jihadists along with refugees; terrorist attacks in western countries are performed by indoctrinated radicalized converts, our very own fellow countrymen. And those people are usually already followed by the different intel organisations. The real danger is the propaganda on the internet, and that has nothing to do with refugees.

You're right about the converts but its a matter of numbers. With something between 5-20 untrained members (I hope less?) and little outside support there as only so much they can do. If they pass 200 soldiers every few months (little to their standards) then manage to arm them somehow, I doubt the Italian military would be able to prevent what comes next. The alternative would be to be daeshes little *****es and give in to any demand.

In any case, open borders now mean radical Islam would is a growing problem in Europe. I strongly believe its best for Europe to be more involved in these Arab countries and risk being called 'filthy colonists'.

SportShark
offline
SportShark
2,934 posts
Bard

[Still, the average suppressed European is far less violent and offensive than someone who comes from a war torn riotvile where people get bombed, shot, and machetted to death on the street on a daily basis.]

No, they aren't.

Really? These people are desperate, have nothing to lose, and are used to extreme acts of violence and terrorism. And you say that they are going assimilate with no problems at all, whoop-dee-do. Daisies and roses. Just let hundreds of thousands of middle eastern 'gees in. Civilians, convicts, terrorists, Al-Quida, The Taliban, Isis, etc... What could possibly go wrong?
Honestly, it's going to be very sad to see a beautiful country like Switzerland get trashed by their culture, physical mess, and Arab lifestyle (washing dishes in the gutter, cleaning diapers in swimming pools, selling tainted chickens on street corners, etc.) I witnessed stuff like this when I was in Paris and it was obvious that the Parisians strongly resented it.

♢♢♢♢♢♢♢♢♢♢♢♢♢♢♢♢♢♢♢♢♢♢♢♢♢♢

To set the record straight, I do care about genuinely suffering 'gees, but I don't support the open border policy. I would support a program that screens each person and gets them work, and keeps them from becoming street urchins, forming gangs, etc...
The problem is that this many people can't just be let in and expected to all find employment and housing. There isn't going to be 100,000+ jobs that will open up for them the minute they step across the border and the same number of rooms for rent. Living in Europe is expensive and I doubt that the mass majority have big amounts of cash laying around in some bank account.

FishPreferred
offline
FishPreferred
3,057 posts
Archduke

These people are desperate, have nothing to lose, and are used to extreme acts of violence and terrorism.
1 If they had nothing to lose, they wouldn't have left in the first place.
2 I'm used to phone solicitors calling me about useless promotional gimmicks. Does this make me likely to become a phone solicitor?

Honestly, it's going to be very sad to see a beautiful country like Switzerland get trashed by their culture, physical mess, and Arab lifestyle (washing dishes in the gutter, cleaning diapers in swimming pools, selling tainted chickens on street corners, etc.) I witnessed stuff like this when I was in Paris and it was obvious that the Parisians strongly resented it.
So, what you're saying is that you have absolutely no idea what their culture is or how they live, but a few bad experiences with uneducated people in unfamiliar surroundings have biased you against the idea regardless. Interesting.
SportShark
offline
SportShark
2,934 posts
Bard

If they had nothing to lose, they wouldn't have left in the first place

How so?

So, what you're saying is that you have absolutely no idea what their culture is or how they live, but a few bad experiences with uneducated people in unfamiliar surroundings have biased you against the idea regardless. Interesting.

None of us are there, so we (or I at least) draw from past experience when we think about what they're like. I prefer to draw my own conclusions rather than believe everything I hear on CNN or BBC.
Doombreed
online
Doombreed
6,809 posts
Justiciar

By not confusing humanity with humaneness.

I knew there was a better word, but 'humanity' can also mean 'humaneness'

The human qualities or aspects, and the ability to be benevolent.

HahiHa
offline
HahiHa
7,754 posts
Grand Duke

With something between 5-20 untrained members (I hope less?) and little outside support there as only so much they can do. If they pass 200 soldiers every few months (little to their standards) then manage to arm them somehow, I doubt the Italian military would be able to prevent what comes next.

Thousands of Europeans have travelled to Syria to fight for Daesh, and some of them come back after a while into their country of origin. While not all may end up acting, I am certain your estimate of 5-20 is way off, sadly. It is difficult to find numbers of how many potential jihadists are being watched currently, but there must be hundreds. Past events have shown that they can acquire weapons easily enough, and they certainly get instructions and training via the internet. Meanwhile, the primary goal of Daesh right now is not starting guerilla wars in Europe, but conquering the Middle East.
For those reasons I don't realistically expect them to send their fighters along with refugees. I may be wrong of course, but strategically speaking I think it unlikely.

Really? These people are desperate, have nothing to lose, and are used to extreme acts of violence and terrorism.

They are the victims of all that violence, not the perpetrators. That is the reason why a lot of them flee; they are persecuted because of their religious denomination; Copts, Kurds, various Muslim denominations. Others flee simply because of the war, because there are no more jobs, no help and the cities are destroyed.

Honestly, it's going to be very sad to see a beautiful country like Switzerland get trashed by their culture, physical mess, and Arab lifestyle (washing dishes in the gutter, cleaning diapers in swimming pools, selling tainted chickens on street corners, etc.) I witnessed stuff like this when I was in Paris and it was obvious that the Parisians strongly resented it.

Their current situation has nothing to do with Arab lifestyle. Living in tents under bridges like some have to in Paris tends to go with missing kitchen/bathroom/job. You would behave the same way in their situation, trust me. (I would also advise you to avoid racist statements like those in the future, for your own good).

As for our country, I have not noticed anything yet. I'll be sure to tell you if I feel trashed.

The problem is that this many people can't just be let in and expected to all find employment and housing. There isn't going to be 100,000+ jobs that will open up for them the minute they step across the border and the same number of rooms for rent.

Actually the German economic and demographic situation is such that Germany will profit from having more workforce available; one reason they have been so welcoming. As for housing, space is definitely not lacking, and lodgings could have been built easily if Europe would have reacted early enough...

Living in Europe is expensive and I doubt that the mass majority have big amounts of cash laying around in some bank account.

Naturally, they had to give everything to those criminal people traffickers. But isn't that just one more reason why they need jobs?
nichodemus
offline
nichodemus
14,869 posts
Viceroy

Actually the German economic and demographic situation is such that Germany will profit from having more workforce available; one reason they have been so welcoming. As for housing, space is definitely not lacking, and lodgings could have been built easily if Europe would have reacted early enough...

Well, there still is unemployment (though that's at a relatively healthy level). Apart from that, no matter how well off a country is, such a huge number is going to be a shock in the short term at the very least. Germany's already began to feel the heat and wants to temporarily tighten border control. But Germany has been extremely tolerant so far, and well done to them. Apart from the economic factor you've mentioned, no doubt their darker historical past has coloured their mindsets to be a society more tolerant of migrants. I can't recall exact numbers but a large proportion of ordinary German citizens have helped in one way or another. And they don't play the anti-immigration card so often unlike other European nations.

But some people will be unhappy no doubt. In reality there's a limit to compassion and people will still want to think for themselves ahead of others, especially newcomers when it comes to the crunch.

---------
I know it's a minority but it's ridiculous that a few migrants are suing the German government for not processing their benefits fast enough. And it's seemingly small and atypical but controversial incidents like these that spark off emotions into a conflagration and play into the hands of fringe groups.

philimaster
offline
philimaster
491 posts
Shepherd

Britain is doing a terrible job of handling this, our stupid far right opposition has scaremongered so much about immigrants that people believe that the refugees just want our benefits system... nice one Nigel Farage...

roydotor2000
offline
roydotor2000
341 posts
Peasant

Well, this depends on what do you mean by refugees.

thepunisher93
offline
thepunisher93
1,834 posts
Peasant

We as a nation, have supported, 1.5 m Afghan Refugees. Although we haad a helping hand, but we have borne them for 30+years.Sure, there were problems, but I've never heard of them going on killing are raping sprees.
and I am proud that, when it materred the most, my nation did not srink away from the burden.

stinkyjim
offline
stinkyjim
479 posts
Farmer

In a perfect world, we could take the refugees in without question. Unfortunately, most countries already have large unemployment rates, not enough housing, etc, etc. Bringing in thousands, even hundreds of refugees into a country at once can have a large impact on the livelihood of those that were already living in the country as well as those coming into the country. Unemployment and homelessness would soar into record numbers, food and water would be scarce, and crime would probably increase as well (not because the refugees are committing crimes, but the original population would have to resort to crime as well in order to survive)

I'd gladly welcome refugees into the country if it didn't have such a large negative impact on the country.

captainsvelte
offline
captainsvelte
20 posts
Chancellor

I see no good reason why we shouldn't be letting in refugees. They are human beings trying to escape something terrible. It's not my fault that I was born into a safe country and it's not their fault that they were not. I also feel that people use their country as an excuse too often, allowing themselves to dehumanize people from other nations, hiding behind bogus claims of national security.
We are one world.

Doombreed
online
Doombreed
6,809 posts
Justiciar

I'd gladly welcome refugees into the country if it didn't have such a large negative impact on the country.

Sorry, you are partly responsible for the whole mess and you wouldn't even lift a finger to help them? Not only they have no such negative impact (not as described), they are innocents trying to escape a war we've provoked and are actively fighting. It is therefore not just our responsibility as humans, but our duty as well. We owe these people

Showing 16-30 of 49