ForumsWEPREuropean influence

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WHDH
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WHDH
168 posts
Farmer

How do you view Europe? As a place of new better world (subjectively) of modern and tolerant values? Divided and week continent? Possibly a new world power if it gets over it's inner issues and more united? Do you see it a valuable west ally or is it too divided to be of any good?

*What is her place in todays world (Example: If Russia invaded Ukraine without USA would Europe do anything? )? As product of todays Europe will Europe for next, lets say 50 year, be a world power. Place of new culture and ideologies? Will a new nation from Europe become the new world power, will new power be Europe as a collective or none of these?

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HahiHa
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HahiHa
7,756 posts
Grand Duke

Googling "Switzerland IT giant" results in "It's a giant broken chair".
"Swiss IT giant" - swiss army knives.
Wikipedia page which lists Swiss IT companies lists 23 entries.
So, um, I don't consider Switzerland as a country with strong IT.

That is because you base your opinion on a short Google search. It only shows that you do not actually know what you talk about. Or how else could we have sent high-quality satellites into space if we only had a knife tool industry? Or power NASA's Mars rovers? What about the CERN? And have you even ever heard of the Swiss Federal Institutes of Technology?

This is the problem here: you think you know a lot and thus make all those claims, and I am not saying all are wrong; but you definitely overestimate your knowledge and misrepresent certain aspects. What is more, considering your behaviour in this thread alone, if anyone is to be the troll, you are the most likely candidate. So take a step back, question your own knowledge and preconceptions, and be more courteous, please.
Gremlion
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Gremlion
524 posts
Jester

@HahiHa
I base my opinion on complete lack of Switzerland IT-related news and products I either work with or read about to have general knowledge about industry.
Like, I've worked with German products (SAP R3), vaguely remember some French ones, but never ever heard about Swiss ones (with the exception of one kickstarter-related gizmo\dizmo or whatever). Right now my job is tied with geo informational systems, and guess what - no swiss one exists either, but around 10+ are from US.
Your "high quality satellite"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CubeSat made from standard details. Congratulation on being able to create something according to instruction from purchased details.
http://www.n2yo.com/satellite/?s=11086 Launched in 1978 satellite, made by students.
"Powering mars rover" - this is precise engineering, reproduction of well known design of electromotor from high quality materials. Today they produce engines, tomorrow- knives. What program products were used to create schemes for these motors, though? American Autocad?
CERN - international project. Swiss participation is almost non-existent.
http://council.web.cern.ch/council/en/governance/TREF-PersonnelStatistics2012.pdf
Institutes of technology - well, Switzerland need to teach new generations how to make knives *pokerface*

Doombreed
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Doombreed
6,809 posts
Justiciar

Today they produce engines, tomorrow- knives.

Um, ok I dare say you are crossing the boundaries between dismissing claims and flattening them if they do not appear to go well with your view.

Take a moment and attempt to prove that sentence and next time don't raze absolutely everything in your path to prove a point.

Gremlion
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Gremlion
524 posts
Jester

Um, ok I dare say you are crossing the boundaries between dismissing claims and flattening them if they do not appear to go well with your view.

Sorry, I forgot to put sign "Sarcasm".

I talked about IT cluster - microelectronics, programs, chips, etc.
Built by Switzerland electric engines, which were given as a counterexample - wires and magnets, electromagnets. This is not an IT tech.

FishPreferred
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FishPreferred
3,057 posts
Archduke

You still haven't contributed anything to the topic beside attacking my opinion.
Exactly. My involvement is therefore justified, however slightly. How about yours?

This is called giving perspective, "comparison" results in some conclusion.
So, we are agreed that you have been making comparisons.

"If you don't enact this legislation, we would reconsider giving you credit, try to cover 15% budget deficit then".
Nice autoquote. Now, if you were an EU representative, it might actually carry some weight.

Last country in Europe, which tried to be independent, was bombed by NATO forces into oblivion, butchered into two, their president was let to rot in prison until death without any sentence, and 15 years later remnants of this country is still one of the biggest sources of refugees.
And this definitively proves that a European nation can't exist independent of the EU, right?

Googling "Switzerland IT giant" results in "It's a giant broken chair".
"Swiss IT giant" - swiss army knives.
Because you told the search engine to find the words "it" and "giant".

So, um, I don't consider Switzerland as a country with strong IT.
My mistake. Apparently, it's Ireland and Sweden with Hungary following close behind.

Today they produce engines, tomorrow- knives.
. . . What? What is that even supposed to mean? Do you even know what you're trying to say anymore?
HahiHa
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HahiHa
7,756 posts
Grand Duke

CERN - international project.

Exactly - international European project. Largest particle physics lab in the world, birthplace of the World Wide Web and driver of technological advances that are being adapted to other scientific branches, medicine and industry. [1] [2]

As for Switzerland's participation, it is a founding member, seat of the organisation, seventh largest financial contributor, and actively researching. Just by the way.

Institutes of technology - well, Switzerland need to teach new generations how to make knives *pokerface*

So you didn't know about them.

Those knife jokes are actually insulting, you know? Please stop with that.
Gremlion
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Gremlion
524 posts
Jester

As for Switzerland's participation, it is a founding member, seat of the organisation, seventh largest financial contributor, and actively researching. Just by the way.

Provided land, 3% of budget, and almost 2% of personnel.
So you didn't know about them.

Can you imagine that I don't get any "WOW!" effect about existence of universities which teach engineers?
City where I studied have 27 such establishments(and this is after merging some of them).
This is the thing I assume countries have by default.
If you say that preparing engineer is an outstanding performance for European country... Well...
HahiHa
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HahiHa
7,756 posts
Grand Duke

And this definitively proves that a European nation can't exist independent of the EU, right?

Indeed, and this is surely a black and white issue, right?

Provided land, 3% of budget, and almost 2% of personnel.

Which is perfectly fine in comparison to the other members. It is a collaborative project, in that light our contribution is anything but 'almost non-existent'.

Can you imagine that I don't get any "WOW!" effect about existence of universities which teach engineers?

My bad, I didn't mention that the institutes I am talking about are of international renown and regularly make it to the top 20 or 10 of global rankings. But fine. Switzerland is not an outstanding IT country. All I was going for is to prove we do have a healthy technological sector of our own, even if you haven't heard about it. Just have a look at the list in Fish's link.

Anyway, I think we have demonstrated that European nations can manage rather well by themselves.
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