Forums → WEPR → Should we use OIL?

jaja well that is true

yeah we should use oil. I like cars

dude wat come on look wat oil has brought this country and all you have to say is i think we should use oil.i like cars.it is hurting our earth.man come on if we keep you using oil we might not even be able to use oil casue we might die but hopefully not

oil hasn't done anything to this country, it is the choices that WE take with the oil, and the predicament that we are in now has come from bad choices from US so you can't really blame the situation on an inanimate object...

but I agree with Strat when he says this:

Either we continue trying to feed our ever-increasing population and possibly struggle just with that since we are still stuck with a fixed, unchanging amount of arable land on which to do that, or we let people go hungry so that we can allocate that resource to something different.

but I'd sooner go "extinct" from not being able to afford bread anymore, than than having to give up my car.

well im bored of talking of this

Well then don't reply if you are tired of talking. This whole topic goes WAY beyond the realms of our thinking. This oil situation effects more than we think/know and until we factor all that in, we can't really suggest a solution. So why don't we start listing things that get effected by using corn for ethanol?

1. Price of food goes up
2. Less available food for eating
3. In case of bad crop season, ethanol might use corn needed for us
4. ???

I like ethanol. I did a short report on it for school Here is my work in defense of ethanol:

Ethanol Fuel
Ethanol fuel is the best thing that has ever happened to the fuel industry. It not only increases engine performance, but it also betters the environment. It is not much more expensive and can be made for less energy than normal fuel. Manufacturers make it by crushing corn, wheat, barley, or sugarcane; they then add water and heat it. Afterward, they add an enzyme to turn the solution to sugars, and then they add yeast. The solution ferments and becomes ten percent alcohol. The manufacturers then distill it to make almost pure alcohol; however, they add a small amount of gasoline to discourage abuse of this almost pure alcohol solution. This fuel gains sixty-seven percent net energy gain. It replaces the need for ordinary gasoline, and almost all cars can run on it. It is renewable and burns very cleanly. It also helps the economy.
Ethanol replaces a very limited resource (gas) for a renewable one. Every barrel of ethanol replaces one point two barrels of Gasoline. One acre of corn can run a car on E-10 ethanol for seventy-two thousand miles. It also happens to be very versatile; it fits in any car. Most of the big car companiesâ cars can run on ethanol, and some of these companies include Toyota, Volvo, GM, Ford, Lexus, Kia, etc. For a full list, look at the bottom of http://www.ncga.com/ethanol/main/your_car.htm#benefits. Even most small engines (lawnmowers and motorcycles) can use E-10. Some cars, called flexible fuel cars, can run on any blend of E-85 ethanol, E-10 ethanol and normal unleaded gasoline. Diesel cars can run on a substance known as ethanol-diesel. Ethanol diesel may be the most helpful form of diesel as it reduces particle waste, carbon monoxide, nitrogen waste, and the black smoke diesel engines (the worst for the environment) emit. In addition, it will be very compatible with fuel cell cars once they come out. As anyone can see, ethanol mirrors every characteristic of gasoline, although ethanol is renewable.
Ethanol is a very efficient substance. Some argue that ethanol takes up more energy to make than gas does to burn. While in the past this may have been true, humans are now making a net energy gain of sixty-seven percent. It has cleansing properties that will clean any engine, making that engine even more fuel-efficient. âEthanol adds oxygen to gasolineâ"improving combustion and reducing toxic exhaust emissions. Adding ethanol to gasoline also dilutes the potency of these toxic chemicalsâ"and greenhouse gas emissions,â (Ethanolfacts.com). Aside from the air, it also cleans oneâs fuel injector, acts like an antifreeze solution during the winter, and replaces MTBE. MTBE (Methyl tertiary butyl ether) is a substance that oxygenates fuel. This raises the octane level and helps the engine. Unfortunately, MTBE can contaminate drinking water. Ethanol does the same thing, except it does threaten to contaminate water. Several states have banned the use of MTBE, so most gas now has some level of ethanol in the mixture.
Ethanol can really help the economy in the future. Some argue that it is more expensive than gasoline, and this is true. However, this is not because it is more expensive to make, but rather because of its demand, âAs MTBE is phased out due to its threat to groundwater quality, the demand for ethanol has increased,â (ncga.com). It, counter intuitively, increases the amount of corn available. Farmers grow more corn for making ethanol, and the byproducts of ethanol are the minerals and vitamins in corn. Farmers can use this to make sweeteners and high-quality animal feed. Furthermore, the corn used for creating ethanol is mostly for animals, not humans. In addition, all the pipelines in the U.S. will work for transporting gasoline, but ethanol will not pass through them without absorbing the water. This is causing the price for ethanol to go up. In the future, when people use ethanol more, it will be worth it to replace the pipelines. This will allow the price of ethanol to fall dramatically. In addition, scientists predict that in the future, the companies will be able to create ethanol from cellulite waste (corn ears, the middle.) This will almost double the output of ethanol, and make it much cheaper.
On an ending note, Brazil has giant ethanol companies running on sugarcane. Sugarcane is both more efficient and less time consuming to make. Sadly, the government imposed a high tariff on all non-American ethanol, so America then has to use the American grown corn. This will have negative effects on the environment and the progression of ethanol; however, it will boost American economy. Even though sugarcane is more efficient than corn, corn is definitely more efficient than gasoline.


I an sorry about the crazy punctuation, but it was copied from microsoft word. At some points it seem a little awkward to read, and that is a result of my teacher being very strict on rhetoric. It also has to be structured "like a five paragraph essay should be," so it may be a little repetative. And yes, ethanol does take a ton of energy to make (I conveniently left that out,) but stops our dependence on oil. It does'nt take as much energy as gasoline, though.

'nuff said

dudde stiffler i made this topic jaja i have talked aobut this in school even i wrote about it so i got obred of talking of oil again

Trojans, why are you posting in here saying you are tired of posting in here? I hate pointless posts! I think that report explains a lot about Etahnol, chiliad_nodi, good job.

Wow, this topic has gone a long way since I last posted. And now I feel like playing the devils advocate. (Bwahahaha)

Oil could be the best thing since, well, ever. Our massive intake of oil might seem bad, but in truth it can, if used the right way, benefit our foreign relations as well as our economy. Now, you may ask "How would oil improve our foreign relations?" Here's what happens:

First, we would raise our national MPG requirements to at least 30MPG on average for each car. Should that happen, by 2030 we would have reduced our average 27MBPD (million barrels per day) to roughly 24MBPD. At that point we would be able to cut off fuel supply from Iran, causing their economy to start collapsing. Should this happen, we would be able to force them to sell their oil for a cheaper price, thus improving our economy and helping the environment. Now, where does this fit into foreign relations? Usually when oil prices reach a peak or a valley a new leader is elected. With a new leader we would have a better chance of improving relations with Iran. We could also stop the production of Nuclear Missiles. This all helps our economy because cheaper oil prices would not put as much of a dent in our economy.

Keep in mind I do not believe oil is useful. I just like being the devils advocate.

So, anyways, this plan would potentially lessen global warming, would help our economy, and would improve relations with Iran.

Thoth, that sounds like a great plan. But do you actually believe that it's possible to happen? It might work. But I think we would be hard pressed to cut off Iran. But, you never know. I sure hope we get this problem fixed in a way that everyone benefits.

Well, like I said, I'm playing the devils advocate. And personally, with alternative energy being the big issue in politics, I think that would never happen in real life unless Obama and McCain were assassinated and we got some big supporter of oil. So no, it probably won't happen.

Any more questions?

Thoth - there are thermodynamic constraints to how much MPG you can get, just because it takes a certain amount of energy to move an object of a given mass at a certain speeds. The current engines on the market are very close to reaching the maximum theoretical limit. Fuel efficiency can only take us so far... and most importantly it will not offset the *increases* in oil demand over time.

Also, isn't the price of oil determined by the market, which is determined by supply and demand? The supply side of the equation is determined by OPEC, not by each individual member nation, so there isn't any way to "force" a particular country to sell at a lower price in the manner being discussed here.