ForumsWEPRReligion's Creation

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Moegreche
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Moegreche
3,829 posts
Duke

There are two really prominent faiths that are &quoticked on" by lots of people: Mormonism and Scientology. Many people believe that it's because these faiths present ridiculous arguments are ideals, but I would like to suggest an alternative.
With both of these faiths, people were able to watch the religion actually being created. We have enough evidence to show the motivations behind the creators and to understand why the religion itself advanced. All religion is really quite ridiculous when you look at it; is an evil space alien controlling the galaxy or Jesus appearing in America really that silly compared to a magical creature that doesn't have to follow physical laws but gets to physically interact with the universe?
Looking at these different religions at face value, they're all incredibly silly - we just have the ability to critically analyze recent faiths like Mormonism and Scientology. If people turned this critique inward, I think more people would realize how improbable and silly belief in a god is. Thoughts?

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Moegreche
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Moegreche
3,829 posts
Duke

Check out some new theories on the Big Bang, Coheed. Some astronomers have reworked the numbers and it's suggesting that we might continue to expand and die a cold lonely death. The numbers are really really close though and the jury is still out. Would you still accept this cold death as part of God's plan?

Megamickel
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Megamickel
902 posts
Peasant

Perhaps the cold death (Or "big freeze&quotis simply God's closing of the book - everything must end. Another theory is that we will continue to expand to a certain point, at which time we will start moving back towards a central point - the point of the "big bang". All matter and energy would again be condensed, and another big bang would take place. However, the current research data that we have points more towards the open universe. Even still, perhaps that is the "end" of God. Perhaps that is how He will end everything. Or, perhaps this is the closing of one book, but the opening of another - there is evidence to suggest that this is not the only universe. Read up on string theory if you've not heard of it. Also, the WMAP Cold Spot is often thought to be the handprint of another universe coming into contact with our own. There are many things that we cannot explain - dark matter, dark energy - and probably never will be able to fully understand. I believe that God created our universe. I also believe that we are not alone in the universe. The Big Freeze, Big Rip, Big Crunch, or however the universe ends... it will end. Just like everything. God is not bound by our laws, however... Imagine a colony of bacteria in a petri dish. To them, the petri dish is the entire world. They aren't aware of (well, anything, really) anything outside of the petri dish. They may be aware that the outside exists, but reaching it seems impossible. However, we can see outside of it and tell that there's something more. Perhaps this is how God is - looking down at us, watching us, and, when the time comes, cleaning up and starting again.

Armed_Blade
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Armed_Blade
1,492 posts
Shepherd

Its said that were not to know God's plan. We can't imagine is. So you can accept just about anything as God's plan, unless God stated "I'mma make everything go boom"[Vague sentence, you get it].

Also, Mutations are caused, but mutations are limited. I'm sure that no human will mutate to having webbed feet and green skin. Its improbable. EVOLUTION OR NUFFIN! >.> [Almost nuffin, anyway]. Also, the Cambrian Explosion was rather far off in history. example: you are bacteria, you have a son, it has a line of bone in it. [Now, What the crap o.o]. Thats like someone today giving birth to a boneless child, and the effect continues. Scary. Also, if leafs can be fossilized, I'm sure some plant was.

If there WAS a flood, then do you believe that Mac-Super Flood just stored these bodies somewhere ina pile 600 feet under the ocean?. I'm pretty sure they were to pop up somewhere. Evolution is one species better adapting to its enviorment, therefor, if its not a moving forward thing, then all you have is us changing with no cause. Which wouldn't explain why some of us aren't turning into whoever the heck knows what. Because if spontaneous evolution is correct, then something spontaneus should have happened to one of us now.
If evolution was chaotic, then our records of other things evolving has always helped them. Its the reason the theory is out there, either expand survival of the fittest on the way you live or evolve and make the way you live the best.

I can't go through all of them. Am getting tired and thinking on if I should make my firstest thread. [Well, second. Made something in the tavern, didn't catch on. :P]

XCoheedX
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XCoheedX
924 posts
Scribe

I agree with you Switch, but Moe, I would never think God would want us to die a cold death. Could you please tell me where you got this info? I have read quite a few books that said that the universe will expand, but then contract because of gravity (I'm not totally sure about that) and BOOOOM! We have yet another Big Bang.

Megamickel
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Megamickel
902 posts
Peasant

@SwitchFoot
I'm a Christian, and am very firm in my belief in Christ as our Lord and Savior. But that doesn't mean my mind is closed to new ideals. Perhaps, perhaps evolution is simply HOW God did it. But that's not for us to know. God did not intend for us to understand everything He does, and the fact that we have a decent concept of evolution is a major step for us. It only further proves the Bible to me, as I see evolution as simply more evidence that God had a hand in our creation - so many conditions, so many subtle differences have made all the difference. Maybe it's coincidence. Maybe God just created the universe and watched over it as we evolved. Maybe Genesis is simply a story. But I believe God created us, and I hold to that. As Gandhi once said: "Be slow in making convictions, and firm in holding them."

Armed_Blade
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Armed_Blade
1,492 posts
Shepherd

Exactly, we don't know that end. So who's to guess he did somehow say that with some akward interpretation.

The end has yet to come. Your right. Tan tan tun.. :P

Strop
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Strop
10,817 posts
Bard

Wow, this turned into some kind of cosmology debate or something while my back was turned. Just to clarify this point though, we are currently at the stage where experiments suggest that the universe has an insufficient critical mass to revert its state of infinite expansion i.e. no big crunch. Also, I hope you all remember that we're talking in the scale of several billions, even trillions of years.

I have to LOL @ Moe's posts because we share a similar academic background, so I know exactly what he means when he said he'd lose it if Sting mentioned entropy...hahaha. I would have therefore mounted my own defense as well as a broader critique (not criticism) of where part of this discussion is heading: apologetics.

Anyway, just to add: my counter to transitional forms being improbable is that I believe that some of those claims are founded in the grey-areas of genetics (not to mention epigenetics). To further verify or reject elements of evolutionary theory, we'll have to come to a better understanding of such.

I would however like to point out that standard anatomical variations point to vestigal forms of "transition" in themselves. Not all of our bodily structures and components are essential or even instrumental to our function; many of them seem to get in the way (e.g. body hair, seriously). Less trivial would be the philogenetically degenerating accessory bones such as the floating vestigal bits commonly found in our feet.

Megamickel's post is a good example of how one can look past political hostilities and reconcile, IMO without compromising the integrity of, to slip into the Christian vernacular, one's relationship with God. Switchfoot, this may sound harsh, but...your posts tell me more about the latitude of your residence than the discussion at hand xD

To end this lengthy post in a lengthy thread of lengthy posts, I ask: why are we discussing the notion of an end, and what does this matter?

Moegreche
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Moegreche
3,829 posts
Duke

I recently audited an Astrophysics class, which is where I got the "cold death" scenario.
But again, the scientific community isn't totally convinced of either scenario. I'm not saying that I am, either. The data which we're using to calculate is coming from bodies that we have to use Hubble's Law in order to postulate their rate of travel, which might not be accurate to certain distances. There is also a great deal of mass which we cannot account for in galaxies and so I don't really think we can understand how this dark matter will interact with the rest of the universe.
I just thought I'd throw that theory out there.

Strop
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Strop
10,817 posts
Bard

(tangential note)

...and even while we're debating this, Cosmology is already lamenting the possible end of cosmology as we know it, since due to the 'infinitely expanding nature' of the universe, in about a trillion years there will be no perceiveable evidence that the big bang ever happened.

"If this is preserved in the archives, it may be the only evidence that the Big Bang ever happened. Whether they choose to believe it is another matter entirely."

Oh noes!!!!!11!1one

Asherlee
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Asherlee
5,014 posts
Shepherd

I thought it was determined that it isn't an ever-expanding universe.

Side note...

Anyone read up on the ideas of a multiverses? It would kind of look like foam. You know all those chambers melded together to make one big thing.

Asherlee
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Asherlee
5,014 posts
Shepherd

I've read a theory that it isn't just a universe, that there are multiverses. It would appear (if you could view it) like the way foam looks. You know the stuff that surrounds a TV in a box? Foam looks like it has chambers of little bits of foam and it's all melded together, thus it would be like a mini multiverse section.

Megamickel
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Megamickel
902 posts
Peasant

I understand where you're coming from, but I dunno about the whole multiverse theory. Though there is evidence that points both directions. We simply don't know enough about the universe to determine whether or not there are multiple universes. The WMAP cold spot has, however, often been used to point towards evidence of string theory and the multiverse theory.

Asherlee
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Asherlee
5,014 posts
Shepherd

Yea, thanks for the picture. That's it!

Megamickel
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Megamickel
902 posts
Peasant

It's impossible to believe that there is no other life out there in the universe, massive as it is. To do so shows such a closed mind... tell me, do you live in Texas? People here just refuse to open themselves to ideals other than their own. Which is why I'm having such a hard time gathering momentum for my movement to take down the church. If only they'd realize the corruption that goes on within the workings of their church, they'd join me in an instant... Ah, but ignorance is such bliss. They are unaware as to the problems they face if they continue to follow these false prophets.

Asherlee
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Asherlee
5,014 posts
Shepherd

Mega, yea I live in Texas. Well, I'm from there and travel home about once a month. I currently attend school else where. I was home this past weekend though! But, yes in a lot of the rural areas of Texas are just as bad as the Bible belt here in the southeast.

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