Forums → WEPR → [redirected]If God created all things
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Here is something to get the brain going. It's been said that God created ALL things. Also it's been said that God is 100 precent pure/good. So God created man and it was said that because of man's sinful actions bad/evil things were created. But if God created ALL things then God created bad/evil things, not man. So by God creating bad/evil things this does not make him 100 precent pure/good.
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We don't worship science we simply accept an apply it.
Whoulden't that be Scienstology?
Bah, blast it. I meant as in stop being all scientific and formal and all that nerdy stuff. at least post like you were talking to a friend or something, like be yourself, ok? Unless formal and nerdy IS yourself....
Aka : "Quit looking smart your making me look bad...
We christians have to withstand scienc and biography lessons about evolution and all that crap, study like atheists, and basically BE atheists at school, and still pray, obey God, be kind to others, be quick to forgive, read, decipher, and obey the Bible, and all that Christian stuff too. I don't know, but maybe you guys chose atheism because it was easier. Maybe because you trusted Christianity, and didnt get anything from it.
Know what other people think. If you just ignore it, and it actualy makes more since then what you currently believe in, then you whould believe in the new thing...
P.S. BeastMode10, consider being a little more easy on the Christians... you seem the hardest atheist and you should realize not all of us are christians bc we want to... some are forced to by parents.
HE IS THE HARDEST? AFTER ALL I HAVE TRIED I AM STILL NOT THE HARDEST! So in other words you whouldn't fear hell, you whould fear the belt? Wow for somthing that is supposed to be about peace it causes alote of war...
And ya know what? There ain't naught that's gonna make me believe in science alone
... Seriosly, you don't believe in science... do I even have to tell you that science makes your body run, inveted the computer you are using, the guns that keep your cuntry powerfull, and every thing else invented? Science is my live, and maney Cristians try to prove god by saying " Science is wrong!!!"... that makes me really POed...
Whoulden't that be Scienstology?
No Scientology has nothing to do with science.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientology
No Scientology has nothing to do with science
The name missled me and I have only heard of it by name, I apologise.
If what you said was true then every Cristian who got cancer, was in a fire, had a broken arm, or died whould be immune to said thing but obviosly are not.
yep, im already back. prayed for some arguments, then -pooof!- 'bout to take a shower, then it came to me. for all you who wonder why there is suffering in the world if God was so caring, is this:
There are no positives without the negative. Think about it. there wouldn't be a warm side to things if there wasn't a cold. there would be no violence, if everything was piece. there wouldn't be the happy, good side of things if there wasn't the sad, bad side of things. Put it this way: if everyone who was about to get hurt (physically OR mentally) was saved, then it would always be happy and never sad, greiving, angry thoughts in peoples mind. Then happy thoughts would be the normal, never-ending feeling for everyone, and eventually, well, there wouldn't be a happy feeeling bc it would be perfectly normal.
HE IS THE HARDEST? AFTER ALL I HAVE TRIED I AM STILL NOT THE HARDEST!
dude... by being p*ssed off you won't become the hardest, your just becoming softer. he is the hardest bc he acts so calm, like he is 100% sure that christianity is fake. by being all ticked off, you show that you aren't completely sure. admit it, if you were completely sure that atheism was the best path, you would be more calm about it, bc you would "know" that it's true. that's the reason I act p*ssed. bc im not too sure myself. at very difficult times in my life, i question: "Why would God do this to me?". but then it puts up more questions: "How could the WORLD do this to me? And fate? How could fate do this?". Obviously and unfortunately, no super duper magical beast comes down and goes "because you suck" or anything like that, so ive been asking myself for years now. maybe you should look out the window one day and appreciate the beauty of the world were in. you'll see that only someone as great as God could make such a thing.
So... after reading the first 2 pages and the last 2 pages, I realize that people are intolerant. which is ok, since we live in a world driven by racism /intolerance. I mean if everyone else does it why can't we?
But Dr cool presents an interesting question.
God created evil, therefore is God evil? it can be argued both ways, as God created something evil after the ingestion of the fruit of knowledge of good and bad, to show the people what evil was. Plus it didnt help that after the "death" of his son "jesus", he stopped appearing in miracles ect.
but could it be possible that god had the intention of bad things happening to people as a demonstration to not do wrong?
In my opinion: no.
Is there a god: Possibly.
Why does he do this: for sh*ts and giggles. (i.e. job (bad things happening to good people))
for all you who wonder why there is suffering in the world if God was so caring, is this:
There are no positives without the negative.
This is a standard response to what's been called the pointless evil objection. If God allows just one instance of undue or pointless suffering (evil), then God is not omnibenevolent (all good).
Sure, kids get cancer and bunnies die in forest fires but, the theist says, these are necessary for a greater good. God can't just let people run around without dying or getting hurt, etc.
But this backs the theist into a corner. Because of this line of argumentation, the theist is no longer allowing any pointless suffering at all.
So, let's think about a kid with cancer who dies. If he had died just one second earlier, he would have suffered less and there would have been no impact on the world as a whole. Thus, we have pointless suffering.
Or what about a bunny in a forest fire that gets trapped and burned to death. How could that creature's suffering possibly be necessary?
Here, the theist will likely say that we can't know or understand God's will. But that's just a terrible answer. We understand things well enough to know when there is pointless suffering. But keep in mind during this argument I've presented, who started by trying to explain God's actions? It was the theist!
So, the theist says God does what He does because the suffering is necessary. The atheist points out examples of pointless suffering. Then the theist tries to make excuses for God, by telling the atheist we can't explain God's actions.
And this is precisely why atheists usually win these arguments - because it's super easy. In this argument I've given, I just used the definition of God's omnibenevolence and some obvious facts about the world around us to show an inconsistency.
All I need is one single instance of pointless suffering to show God's inconsistency. The theist must explain away every single one of these instances.
God created all humans with the chose to sin or not sin (evil deeds) but we as humans break his laws and rules every day which makes us impure not him. Is the justice system impure just because it has laws which we break and they enforce?
Is the justice system impure just because it has laws which we break and they enforce?
Comparing God to the justice system just won't work. God has properties like omnipotence and omnibenevolence that the justice system just doesn't have.
And that's fine that we're impure. Life can be a struggle to attain that purity to make it into heaven. But when people or animals suffer pointlessly, that shows that God's will is, at least, quite arbitrary.
But going back to the analogy, the punishment for disobeying God's laws is to spend an eternity in hell. Not suffering and dying of cancer.
[quote]Life can be a struggle to attain that purity to make it into heaven. But when people or animals suffer pointlessly, that shows that God's will is, at least, quite arbitrary.
But going back to the analogy, the punishment for disobeying God's laws is to spend an eternity in hell. Not suffering and dying of cancer.
Yes and that may seem harsh but he has warned us in his word what the punishment is and because of of Adams sins we all at one point must suffer.
But going back to the analogy, the punishment for disobeying God's laws is to spend an eternity in hell. Not suffering and dying of cancer.
thinking of it hell being a place you suffer for eternity is just another example of unnecessary suffering far worse then.
How is eternal suffering for a finite transgression justice?
Yes and that may seem harsh but he has warned us in his word what the punishment is and because of of Adams sins we all at one point must suffer.
By this logic if your great great great great great great grandfather committed a crime you should be punished for it.
If I as a mere human can find enough compassion that if would not have even the worst person who ever lived suffer such a fate as hell, why can't God?
If I as a mere human can find enough compassion that if would not have even the worst person who ever lived suffer such a fate as hell, why can't God?
I think that's a great point, and really gets back to the point of the thread. If we accept the premise that God created all things, then God also created hell - a place where those who don't follow Him suffer for eternity.
Honestly, the whole idea is silly. I didn't ask to be here; presumably God would have infused by body with a soul (or something like that). And yet God is asking me to worship Him? Did I sign up for this?
It's like being kidnapped and taken to a party where a lot of fun stuff is happening. But you're not allowed to partake in any of the fun stuff. You just have to sit there and think about the guy who organized the party who isn't there and nobody at the party is even sure existed.
Personally, I'd rather have just stayed at home.
According to the theist, God made the rules (at least for how to get into heaven), God made us, and God made hell for those who don't follow the rules. This is not compassion. This is like those Saw movies on crack.
There are no positives without the negative.
David Attenborough really hit the nail on the head with this in mind. People who claim,''how can there not be a god with all the natural beauty which exists in the world?''
To which Attenborough replied:''I think of a little child in east Africa with a worm burrowing through his eyeball. The worm cannot live in any other way, except by burrowing through eyeballs. I find that hard to reconcile with the notion of a divine and benevolent creator.''
And that kind of links into what Moegreche is saying. If we are talking about the Abrahamic god, he is benevolent. Yet he creates creatures which live off the maiming of innocent children. C'mon.
dude... by being p*ssed off you won't become the hardest, your just becoming softer. he is the hardest bc he acts so ca
It was a joke, next time pray for a since of humor.
yep, im already back. prayed for some arguments, then -pooof!- 'bout to take a shower, then it came to me. for all you who wonder why there is suffering in the world if God was so caring, is this:
There are no positives without the negative. Think about it. there wouldn't be a warm side to things if there wasn't a cold. there would be no violence, if everything was piece. there wouldn't be the happy, good side of things if there wasn't the sad, bad side of things. Put it this way: if everyone who was about to get hurt (physically OR mentally) was saved, then it would always be happy and never sad, greiving, angry thoughts in peoples mind. Then happy thoughts would be the normal, never-ending feeling for everyone, and eventually, well, there wouldn't be a happy feeeling bc it would be perfectly normal.
Not true, though you are correct and said things are relitive, we whould still have then none the less. If a tribe of fighters only was in one war at the time, it may be considered peace. And using this logic, it whould be ok for me to stab my brother so others can feel better
The Bible teaches that God IS all powerful and all good. There is evil in this world. The only answer to the question of why there is evil and suffering then is:
"For a reason which is perfectly sufficient for God."
If I as a mere human can find enough compassion that if would not have even the worst person who ever lived suffer such a fate as hell, why can't God?God created Hell for satin ( Lucifer) an once angel who thought he was better than God this happened before the fall of man (sin of Adam) so heel was not made for us it was made for the devil God's intention is not for us to go to hell.
I think that's a great point, and really gets back to the point of the thread. If we accept the premise that God created all things, then God also created hell - a place where those who don't follow Him suffer for eternity.
Honestly, the whole idea is silly. I didn't ask to be here; presumably God would have infused by body with a soul (or something like that). And yet God is asking me to worship Him? Did I sign up for this?
It's like being kidnapped and taken to a party where a lot of fun stuff is happening. But you're not allowed to partake in any of the fun stuff. You just have to sit there and think about the guy who organized the party who isn't there and nobody at the party is even sure existed.
Personally, I'd rather have just stayed at home.
According to the theist, God made the rules (at least for how to get into heaven), God made us, and God made hell for those who don't follow the rules. This is not compassion. This is like those Saw movies on crack.
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