Forums → WEPR → [3-year necro]Time Travel is Impossible
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It is impossible to travel back in time. Not all time travel is impossible; it may be possible to travel forward in time.
Well, despite the terrible movie, the butterfly effect actually teaches something: that a butterfly flapping its wings can change the world. For example, if you place a ball at the top of a hill, even by changing the position of the ball by one millimeter, it could take a completely different course.
Basically, if you go back in time, even by breathing and changing the carbon dioxide to oxygen ratio, you could make something breathe another gas that may have a disease. That something could die from it, setting off a whole chain of events, changing the world in the long run.
Another thing associated with the time travel is the grandfather paradox. If you go back in time, kill your grandfather, and then you would never be born, thus creating a paradox. The universe cannot have a paradox. It is unknown what will happen, but it is known (by known, I mean pretty well accepted) that the universe cannot have a paradox occur, therefore, it eliminates the possibility of the paradox by just removing the factor that causes the paradox.
The butterfly effect and the grandfather paradox are connected as if you alter the universe by being in the past.
Now, one way to get around this is that by killing your own grandfather, you form an alternate universe, parallel to yours. It would be impossible to get back to the other universe as you would have to go back in time to where the skew occurred, but as discussed with the butterfly effect, it might create a universe parallel to the parallel universe.
Another solution is that somehow, your grandfather is still alive, even if his head was chopped off. It would be impossible to conflict the the determined outcome of time. That leads me to the question if it is impossible to conflict the the outcome of time, then you why would time travel be possible in the first place?
Just something to think about. If any of you can come up with a solution to travel back in time without a paradox, I will be amazed.
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Just something to think about. If any of you can come up with a solution to travel back in time without a paradox, I will be amazed
Parallel universes.
Something like creating a new identical universe when going back in time, or maybe some already exist. The only problem I can think of is you are messing with a universe you don't live in.
Something like creating a new identical universe when going back in time, or maybe some already exist. The only problem I can think of is you are messing with a universe you don't live in.
Now, one way to get around this is that by killing your own grandfather, you form an alternate universe, parallel to yours. It would be impossible to get back to the other universe as you would have to go back in time to where the skew occurred, but as discussed with the butterfly effect, it might create a universe parallel to the parallel universe.
Thanks for reading the OP.
Thanks for reading the OP.
Sorry, guess I missed some of it.
But thats not quite what I meant. I was thinking more of a way to get back to your original universe from any time in the parallel one. I was also think of something less destructive than killing your grandfather for creating the parallel universe, more like the time machine itself does it without changing anything.
But thats not quite what I meant. I was thinking more of a way to get back to your original universe from any time in the parallel one. I was also think of something less destructive than killing your grandfather for creating the parallel universe, more like the time machine itself does it without changing anything.
Well, I also explained that it was impossible. As seen in Back to the Future Part II, you would have to get back at the point where you killed your grandfather (created the alternate universe), but because of the butterfly effect, you will create endless universes (that last part is my assumption of what will happen).
What do you mean? The time machine goes into a parallel universe in a different time? Hmm. That's something to think about. I suppose, but how do you get back to your universe?
Well, I also explained that it was impossible. As seen in Back to the Future Part II, you would have to get back at the point where you killed your grandfather (created the alternate universe), but because of the butterfly effect, you will create endless universes (that last part is my assumption of what will happen)
Being impossible in a movie, or even modern physics does mean that it is truly impossible. Unless you would like the discussion to follow that, which is fine.
What do you mean? The time machine goes into a parallel universe in a different time? Hmm. That's something to think about. I suppose, but how do you get back to your universe?
I suppose it would depend on how the parallel universes worked. It could be possible that you could somehow "save" a point in your universe when you go back in time into a parallel one. And them from the parallel go back to that point you "saved".
Being impossible in a movie, or even modern physics does mean that it is truly impossible. Unless you would like the discussion to follow that, which is fine.
No, but it does make sense, no?
I suppose it would depend on how the parallel universes worked. It could be possible that you could somehow "save" a point in your universe when you go back in time into a parallel one. And them from the parallel go back to that point you "saved".
How would one save a point?
No, but it does make sense, no?
I find it hard to say what makes sense when talking about theoretical stuff. Like a hundred years ago if someone was talking about a computer most would probably say that makes no sense, yet here we are.
How would one save a point?
Honestly I don't really have any idea. About the only thing I can think of would be a Bill and Teds Excellent Adventure type of thing, but with parallel universes in addition to all the parts of your universe. However that leads us to time being a fixed thing where the same thing would always happen no matter what.
I find it hard to say what makes sense when talking about theoretical stuff. Like a hundred years ago if someone was talking about a computer most would probably say that makes no sense, yet here we are.
It is all theoretical, but I find that it is fascinating. Even if it all is just a bunch of waste that really has no spine when you do the math, I find it so interesting that one could argue that time travel is possible. I am not saying your wrong, but I love hearing how it sounds ridiculous, but it sounds so realistic at the same time.
Honestly I don't really have any idea. About the only thing I can think of would be a Bill and Teds Excellent Adventure type of thing, but with parallel universes in addition to all the parts of your universe. However that leads us to time being a fixed thing where the same thing would always happen no matter what.
Well, look at it this way. If you spend a day going the almost the speed of light, you will probably have aged only a day, but it people who aren't going the speed of light in a day, are maybe aging weeks, if not years. You can change time relative to one's position and speed in the universe, but time itself is constant. Time for everyone will doesn't not speed up, and time for you does not slow down, but rather you speed up.
For it to be possible to travel back in time, you would have to reverse it, which is impossible as the only way to experience time is to alter the effect it has on you by going at very fast speeds.
Time travel into the past is impossible, because it creates paradoxes and it just is impossible to reverse time.
I guess that's what I've been leading up to, but got sidetracked with the parallel universe discussion. I still find it fascinating.
It is all theoretical, but I find that it is fascinating. Even if it all is just a bunch of waste that really has no spine when you do the math, I find it so interesting that one could argue that time travel is possible. I am not saying your wrong, but I love hearing how it sounds ridiculous, but it sounds so realistic at the same time.
I usually find theoretical stuff fascinating too, especially the stuff that is more realistic because it increases the chances of it being proven/used in my life.
Well, look at it this way. If you spend a day going the almost the speed of light, you will probably have aged only a day, but it people who aren't going the speed of light in a day, are maybe aging weeks, if not years. You can change time relative to one's position and speed in the universe, but time itself is constant. Time for everyone will doesn't not speed up, and time for you does not slow down, but rather you speed up.
When I said time was fixed I was thinking more of a time line than time itself. The way it works in the Bill and Ted movies(or seems to) is that no matter what anyone thought or did, their actions was always the same and the future was set in stone. And that was the basis for their time machine.
For it to be possible to travel back in time, you would have to reverse it, which is impossible as the only way to experience time is to alter the effect it has on you by going at very fast speeds.
Time travel into the past is impossible, because it creates paradoxes and it just is impossible to reverse time.
I guess that's what I've been leading up to, but got sidetracked with the parallel universe discussion. I still find it fascinating.
The Silver Surfer can reverse time.
On a more realistic note, that is the only way we have come up with so far for time travel. It may be something like Bill and Ted, but with the future not being written, and it is impossible to actually change the past.
When I said time was fixed I was thinking more of a time line than time itself. The way it works in the Bill and Ted movies(or seems to) is that no matter what anyone thought or did, their actions was always the same and the future was set in stone. And that was the basis for their time machine.
That sparks up a solution to the grandfather paradox, that no matter what, you cannot kill your grandfather. In the Time Machine, his lover gets killed when she is mugged, but when he goes back in time to stop it, she dies in a car crash. No matter what you do, you cannot change the outcome of time. It is predetermined. But that sparks up the question that you don't travel through time, but become a part of its timeline. Rather than time being constant, it is dynamic in the sense that it adapts itself so that no paradox is formed.
As I stated before,
Another solution is that somehow, your grandfather is still alive, even if his head was chopped off. It would be impossible to conflict the the determined outcome of time.
On a more realistic note, that is the only way we have come up with so far for time travel. It may be something like Bill and Ted, but with the future not being written, and it is impossible to actually change the past.
Well, if the past is set in stone, then why would it be possible to travel through time. I know that's like saying, if you have a pool that has chloride, then why would you try to make it dirty. I just can't get my head around the fact that time travel into the past could be possible with so many factors that could affect it. I just find it difficult for scientists to ever travel back in time with all the knowledge that they don't have.
They have to figure out how time itself works and what happens if you do try to travel in time.
Just something to think about. If any of you can come up with a solution to travel back in time without a paradox, I will be amazed.
i did not read the entire op or thread, but here is my answer:
we are traveling through time, right now, this second. what we live now is the present, but those in the future who will look back on us (living now) will notice us existing over a period of time. would that not therefore mean that we traveling through time?
It is predetermined
um, by who or what?
Just FYI, the Butterfly Affect is actually the Chaos Theory. That a butterfly flapping its wings in the amazon can cause a hurricane to his the US Eastcoast.
I dont think its possible at all. Like you said in the OP, Paradoxes cannot happen, so the Universe makes it so that they can never happen. Hence, time travel to the past is impossible.
And traveling to the future is also impossible. The Future has yet to happen, so it does not exist. How can I go to a place/time that does not exist? I can't; its akin to me saying that I'm gonna go to the McDonalds behind my house, when there is none.
And even if time travel was possible, you would have to go faster than the speed of light to achieve it. And the speed of light is the ultimate speed limit of the Universe. To do otherwise would disproove the EPR paper, and most of modern physics.
you have a strong case maverick...
some theorists advocate the existence of tachyon particles tho... and these particles are thought to travel only as slow as the speed of light. others say they don't exist... but some do... so who knows. just as a personaly policy... i don't like to make too many absolute statements... its better to address something as highly improbable then it is to "no can't happen" when we don't really know right now.
also... some people advocate the possibility of small wormholes (electron size) that allow those pieces of matter to bamf around from time to time.... and some say those don't exist.... if they do and we can tame that side of nature/creation/whathaveyou then the impossible might be possible... i don't know what all in the way of possibility there would be tho... whether you just appeared at another place in the universe w/o going through time... or if you appeared in the same place in the universe at a different time... or some combination of the two. i don't think we've confirmed the existence of said particles and wormholes so i'm not sure we can propose an absolute just yet
And traveling to the future is also impossible. The Future has yet to happen, so it does not exist. How can I go to a place/time that does not exist? I can't; its akin to me saying that I'm gonna go to the McDonalds behind my house, when there is none.
And even if time travel was possible, you would have to go faster than the speed of light to achieve it. And the speed of light is the ultimate speed limit of the Universe. To do otherwise would disproove the EPR paper, and most of modern physics.
There is a way to travel in time, though its not an instant jump into the future. Travelling at very high speeds makes time slow down for you, and thus everyone else if further in time than you are. And it is possible that some particles could pass the speed of light, it was mentioned in the post above, but they are still theoretical.
some theorists advocate the existence of tachyon particles tho... and these particles are thought to travel only as slow as the speed of light. others say they don't exist... but some do... so who knows. just as a personaly policy... i don't like to make too many absolute statements... its better to address something as highly improbable then it is to "no can't happen" when we don't really know right now.
also... some people advocate the possibility of small wormholes (electron size) that allow those pieces of matter to bamf around from time to time.... and some say those don't exist.... if they do and we can tame that side of nature/creation/whathaveyou then the impossible might be possible... i don't know what all in the way of possibility there would be tho... whether you just appeared at another place in the universe w/o going through time... or if you appeared in the same place in the universe at a different time... or some combination of the two. i don't think we've confirmed the existence of said particles and wormholes so i'm not sure we can propose an absolute just yet
Albert Einstein said in the EPR Paper that the maximum speed a particle could reach was the speed of light. As of yet, in particle accelarators, we can only get particles very near the speed of light, not equal to it, and certainly not past it. So we can safely say that no *known* object has ever met or surpassed the speed of light, except light of course.
There is a way to travel in time, though its not an instant jump into the future. Travelling at very high speeds makes time slow down for you, and thus everyone else if further in time than you are.
Realatavistic Speed. If a body travels at a speed close to the speed of light, it is affected by time less. So, if I were to travel at a realatavistic speed, than I may travel for 50 years, but only have aged 2 years. Problem with this is the Twin Paradox, written by Albert Einstein, but thats a different topic. It doesn't affect all time, just how time affects you/the body.
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