Forums → WEPR → Theism and Atheism
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I grew up atheist for 16 years. I had always kept an open mind towards religion, but never really felt a need to believe in it. My sister started going to a Wednesday night children's program at a church. Eventually, I was dragged into a Christmas Eve service. Scoffing, I reluctantly went, assuming that this was going to be a load of crap, but when I went, I felt something. Something that I've never felt before. I felt a sense of empowerment and a sense of calling. Jesus called upon my soul, just like he did with his disciples. he wanted me to follow him. Now, my life is being lived for Christ. He died on the cross for my sins, and the sins of everyone who believes in him. He was beaten, brutalized, struck with a whip 39 times, made to carry a cross up to the stage of his death. This I believe to be true, and I can never repay him for what he has done.
I still have my struggles with Christianity, but I've found this bit of information most useful. Religion is not comprehensible in the human mind, because we cannot comprehend the idea of a perfect and supreme being, a God, but we can believe it in our heart, and that's the idea of faith. Faith is, even though everything rides against me believing in Jesus, I still believe in him because I know that it's true in my heart. I invite my fellow Brothers and sisters of the LORD to talk about how Jesus has helped you in your life. No atheists and no insults please
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this is what happens if you say "confess to the lord and evrything is forgiven" somthing that ive heared christians say alot.
girls can also work in churches. just not on the front line i guess.
i know ive seen them make those round cookies and i'm prety sure they made the food for priests in history. (a man cooking? no way) and clean up the church. (a man cleaning? no way) but i didn't know about that 1 priest but still the majorty are only young boys.
That was all in the old testament.
No it isn't, the no believe get's you a ticket to hell is in the new testament. Besides that is irrelevant to my statement that the Bible (as a whole) contained severe punishments for less.
That was all in the old testament.
So were the Ten Commandments. Why do those tend to stick but the slavery and genecide are overlooked? Because they are more in tune with modern morals? How does it reflect on the religion when you can ignore the parts in your Holy Book that society as a whole has decided are completely immoral?
Religion tears people apart, that's all there is too it. And before any more comments about atheists being childish, I see no one here being childish. Religion is merely a concept invented by man to explain the unknown. Who are we to say what mythical beings and deities exist and which don't. Most major wars that have been fought all started on the basis of religion. People of every age and religion seem to have a problem with anybody who does not share the same religion as they do, it's human nature to judge what you do not understand, or fully comprehend. I personaly feel that it's great that people have faith. It just irks me when faith becomes smashing your religion down someone else's throat. Not that any of you are doing that. Yes, many people who are not Christian suffer persecution. People will make fun of you, and not want to be around you. But tell me, does it really matter the beliefs of the ones around you as long as they are good to you and have their heart in the righ place? I don't think it does. We all feel the impulse to judge other based on their differences. Religion is a creation of man, used to explain the creation of man.
simply not believing gets you in hell.Refusing to believe does lead you in Hell, but even then you might not end up in there, it's for God to judge. You are judging people here, be careful with this.
The point I was trying to make was that some angels, who are perfect, can no longer make the correct choice.They initially had only one attempt at choosing, so they "don't have free will" but are still perfect. By perfectness I mean "unable to improve, as there's nowhere to improve" which is true for angels and false for souls. Probably this is what confused you.
since he knows exactly what we will doThis point is wrong as it effectively deprives us of free will. He knows our choices and outcomes of them, and shifts the events around to run the world according to His plans. So we can have our choices at free, we will not break God's plans (although we can thwart them, IIRC there were visions to people where God said something about this), but the responsibility for consequences is all ours. This, however, implies that He does not need to know what we will do, but He respects our will and does not force us into doing what is right for Him.
God cannot both have free will and be incapable of lyingWhy not? He can just not disclose any information He needs, as He does not reveal His plans to humans. If you're trying to make God lie, He will either say nothing, or make you look foolish, as we really are before His wisdom. Also, if you assume God does not have free will, then that will is to be controlled somehow. By who, then?
If this is evidence for God's existence, then evidence against God's existence would be perfectly healthy people getting sick or dropping dead.On the contrary. God is capable of shifting life's course both sides. It's just "erfectly healthy people getting sick and dropping dead" is too common to investigate every case to find out whether that was God's interference of any kind. Name "dying from old age" - everyone dies eventually, and you can't say why exactly this person died this day and not the day before.
I know about the no believe hell thing, but whats this about the stivks
Why do those tend to stick but the slavery and genecide are overlooked?
We find slavery in the new testament as well. I suppose the events in Revelations could cover genocide as well.
Refusing to believe does lead you in Hell, but even then you might not end up in there, it's for God to judge. You are judging people here, be careful with this.
So atheists are fine not believing until sufficient evidence is presented then? As for being careful it's like telling me to be careful I don't end up at Mordor.
They initially had only one attempt at choosing, so they "don't have free will" but are still perfect. By perfectness I mean "unable to improve, as there's nowhere to improve" which is true for angels and false for souls. Probably this is what confused you.
If angels are perfect and without free will how could the Devil and his follower ever have existed?
This point is wrong as it effectively deprives us of free will. He knows our choices and outcomes of them, and shifts the events around to run the world according to His plans.
Does anyone else see something really contradictory in this statement?
everyone dies eventually, and you can't say why exactly this person died this day and not the day before.
Investigations with autopsies generally reveal cause of death.
Why do those tend to stick but the slavery and genecide are overlooked?
We find slavery in the new testament as well. I suppose the events in Revelations could cover genocide as well.
Refusing to believe does lead you in Hell, but even then you might not end up in there, it's for God to judge. You are judging people here, be careful with this.
So atheists are fine not believing until sufficient evidence is presented then? As for being careful it's like telling me to be careful I don't end up at Mordor.
They initially had only one attempt at choosing, so they "don't have free will" but are still perfect. By perfectness I mean "unable to improve, as there's nowhere to improve" which is true for angels and false for souls. Probably this is what confused you.
If angels are perfect and without free will how could the Devil and his follower ever have existed?
This point is wrong as it effectively deprives us of free will. He knows our choices and outcomes of them, and shifts the events around to run the world according to His plans.
Does anyone else see something really contradictory in this statement?
everyone dies eventually, and you can't say why exactly this person died this day and not the day before.
Investigations with autopsies generally reveal cause of death.
Dude picked up sticks on the sabbath, it was deemed work so he was killed for it.
So atheists are fine not believing until sufficient evidence is presented then?Hmmm. If ANY evidence is presented, in short. Or at least enough evidence to consider if it's reaaly true that God exists. You seem to pull that old trick of "Come on God, show me that you really exist" again. Check yourself if you're in fact blatantly ignore the signs of life around you. Check if there are some subtle events that changed your life's course dramatically, and think what it could be if they won't happen. I did that once, and found out there was plenty of them, several were crucial enough from the retrospect.
If angels are perfect and without free will how could the Devil and his follower ever have existed?Ask God, I don't know.
Does anyone else see something really contradictory in this statement?Point me please. There could be some indeed.
Dude picked up sticks on the sabbath, it was deemed work so he was killed for it.Overzealousness at its worst - well, it happens This is a lesson for us to not to repeat.
Investigations with autopsies generally reveal cause of death.Yes of course, but they can't say why he didn't die one day before or one day after (unless there's a bullet hole in the body, obviously).
Investigations with autopsies generally reveal cause of death.
Okay, 4 penetrations in the body, probably hitting a good vain, blood constantly spitting out. No food, a sponge of water here and there, and the way they nailed you and the way the cross is made you have to stick up your neck to breath easily. That's going to kill you. Along with constant whipping before the crucifixion.
When we discuss, we show our intelligence, when we argue, we show the lack thereof -- Dr. Spock
Without darkness, there is no distinctive light -- Lt. Commander Tuvok
Hey looky! You got 1-upped by non-existant characters! GUYS! GUYS GUYS GUYS GUYS!!!! Just stop arguing! Discuss. We don't wanna hear how bloody brutal being nailed to a piece of wood was! We wanna here about baby Jesus, happy, healthy, and ALIVE. Atheists.... screw my non-biased standpoint. Atheists. You are total idiots. You are making fools of yourselves. If you really WERE in the right, you wouldn't be interfering with the lives of others. Christians. Stop being arses. Just let Atheists hallucinate. Okay? OKAY? You can tell them 'I TOLD YOU SO" when they burn in hell, eh? EH? OCme on guys. Make up your differences. We've only got one life to live, so let's live it the best we can, as friends, huh? So shall we? No? Then by all means, have a dogfight.
That's right all you Christians just sinned because you didn't turn the your cheeks :P. Haha from now on I should mention that you guys should be repenting for arguing which means that guess what! since you cannot debate without sinning then you guys cannot prove us wrong.
Hmmm. If ANY evidence is presented, in short. Or at least enough evidence to consider if it's reaaly true that God exists. You seem to pull that old trick of "Come on God, show me that you really exist" again.
What makes it such an unreasonable request?
Ask God, I don't know.
God is not surprisingly silent.
Yes of course, but they can't say why he didn't die one day before or one day after (unless there's a bullet hole in the body, obviously).
The damage to the body wasn't existent the day before.
Hey looky! You got 1-upped by non-existant characters! GUYS! GUYS GUYS GUYS GUYS!!!! Just stop arguing!
"Your child is having a tantrum, Mr. Spock." -McCoy
Atheists.... screw my non-biased standpoint. Atheists. You are total idiots. You are making fools of yourselves. If you really WERE in the right, you wouldn't be interfering with the lives of others.
By interfering you mean posting on a forum?
"If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you oughtta go back home and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here." -Q
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