Forums → WEPR → Heaven and Hell?
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I am catholic so I believe that there is heaven and hell. I do beleive that you have to do good in this world to be able to go to heaven but if you do evil and bad more than good in this world I do believe that you will go to hell.
Heaven it is hard to concept the thought of living for eternity in heaven and that everything would be perfect and everyone would be nice and kind.
Hell it is also very hard to think that you will be punished for many years until getting the chance to go to heaven. Also you could be in hell for eternity suffering if you do very bad things in this world.
What is you thought on heaven and hell?
Do you beleive in heaven and hell?
Do you think you will go to heaven or hell?
Is God really real?
Discuss, it can be short or long answers or views.
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how can people know how haven or hell look if they have never seen them? and if you have, can you then come back to tell others how heaven/hell look?
Here is a descripsion of Heaven by John:
Rev. 21 : 5 - 8
There were seven angels in Johns Vision holding seven bowls full of the last plagues. One of the Angels came up to John in his Vision and said âCome, I will show you the bride, the wife of the lamb.
Then the Angel carried John away in the Spirit to a mountain great and high and showed John the holy city. He says it was shown with the glory of God, its brillance was like of a very precous jewel, like a jasper, clear as crystal. It had a great high wall with twelve angels at the gates On the gates were written the names of the twelve tribles of Israel.
There were three gates on the east, three on the north, three on the north, three on the south and three on the west..
The wall of the city had twelve foundations, and on there were the names of twelve apostles of the Lamb.
The angel who talked with John had a measuring rod of Pure gold to measure the city, its gates and its walls.
The city was laid out like a square as long as it was wide. He measured the City with the rod and found it to be 12,000 stadia in length and as wide and high as it was long.
Stadia - is an acre.
So Zion or New Jerusalam or Heaven is 12,000 acres long and 12,000 acres Wide and 12,000 acres High.
He measured the wall and it was 144 cubits thick, by mans measurement, which the angel was using.
A Cubit is about 17 to 22 in. long. From the tip of the middle finger to the elbow.
The wall was made of Jasper, Which is like Crystall so clear you can see through it.
The wall was also made from Pure God, as pure as Glass.
So the Walls of heaven are so clear you can see through them.
The foundations of the city walls were decorated with every kind of precious Stone. The First foundation being Jasper, the Secound Saphire, the third chalcedony., the forth Emerald, The fifth sardonyx, the sixth carnelian, the seventh chrysalides, the eighth beryl, The ninth was topaz, the tenth chrysoprase, the eleventh was jacinth, the twelth was amethyst
John says he did not see a Temple in the city because the Lord God Almighty and the lamb are its temple. The city does not need the sun or the moon to shine on it, for the glory of God gives it light, nad the Lamb is its lamp.
The nations will walk by its light and the kings of the earth will bring their splendor into it. On no day will its gates ever shut for there will be no night there. The glory and honor of the nations will brought into Nothing impure will ever enter nor will anyone who what is shameful or deceitful, but only those whose name are written in the Lambs book of life.
Then the angel showed John the river of life, it was clear as crystal, flowing from the throne of God and of the Lamb down the middle of the great street of the city. On each side of the river stood the tree of life bearing twelve crops of fruit, yielding its fruit every month. The leaves of the tree are for the healing of the nations. No longer will there be any curse. The throne of God and of the Lamn will be in the city, and his servents wil lserve him. They will see his face, and his name will be on their foreheads. There will be no more night. They will not need the light of a lamp or the light of the sun. For The Lord will give them light. then they will reign for ever and ever.
Here is the sourcefor that.
I hate that religious people feel so convicted that they impose their will on other people because of their beliefs.
Ummm..... I don't think any of us were trying to convice you or make you join my religion or my beleifs.
Here is a descripsion of Heaven by John:
You like quotes to much. I can't tell when your quote ends....
Why do you need people to tell you what the Bible says? Shouldn't you read the Bible and find out yourself?
Ummm..... I don't think any of us were trying to convice you or make you join my religion or my beleifs.
I'm going to assume he's referring to people he meets in real life, so don't take it personally.
Rev. 21 : 5 - 8
Wait...
Revelations 21:5 And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.
21:6 And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely.
21:7 He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.
21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and *****mongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.
What does that do with describing heaven?
Why do you need people to tell you what the Bible says? Shouldn't you read the Bible and find out yourself?
Well if you want to prove your point you sort of have to post quotes from the Bible. Not just say go read passage whatever from the Bible. Not very much people will do that.
I'm going to assume he's referring to people he meets in real life, so don't take it personally
Oh ya that would make sense because I was like what? I would never try to convert someone's faith.
For everyone viewing or discussing on this thread:
1. What is you thought on heaven and hell?
2. Do you beleive in heaven and hell?
3. Do you think you will go to heaven or hell?
4. Is God really real?
We haven't really fully answered these questions. Maybe start will the first one. Plus discuss.
Well if you want to prove your point you sort of have to post quotes from the Bible. Not just say go read passage whatever from the Bible. Not very much people will do that.
You didn't post quotes from the Bible. You posted quotes that someone else said about the Bible.
We haven't really fully answered these questions. Maybe start will the first one. Plus discuss.
Alright.
1. What is you thought on heaven and hell?
2. Do you beleive in heaven and hell?
3. Do you think you will go to heaven or hell?
4. Is God really real?
1. There is no heaven or hell.
2. No.
3. No.
4. No.
There. Done.
Well if you want to prove your point you sort of have to post quotes from the Bible. Not just say go read passage whatever from the Bible. Not very much people will do that.
Are't posting quotes from the Bible and reading ''assage whatever'' one and the same thing? Both entail taking bits and pieces that support your argument and hurling them at your opponents.
I'm pretty sure we've all heard people answering 1) and 2) sufficiently. And 3) only comes about if you believe in the concept.
Are't posting quotes from the Bible and reading ''assage whatever'' one and the same thing? Both entail taking bits and pieces that support your argument and hurling them at your opponents.
Well do you really think people would read from the Bible if I told them what page.
Well do you really think people would read from the Bible if I told them what page.
I did. And you got the pages wrong or something.
(I posted revelations 21: 5-8 and they have nothing to do with Heaven...)
Well do you really think people would read from the Bible if I told them what page.
No, but....ah now I understand what you're getting at. That was just an ambiguous statement that threw me off track. Sorry.
I did. And you got the pages wrong or something.
(I posted revelations 21: 5-8 and they have nothing to do with Heaven...)
I think he meant to say Rev 21:9-21.
Okay so nobody disagree's with the description of Heaven. Fine, I guess Heaven does look like how it was described and that it is real.
Okay so MageGrayWolf posted in page 21 saying
I remember that, here is a video on it.
Skeptic Bible Study: History and Location of Hell
So I agree and with what the video is saying. That Hell is actaully a place outside of Jeruselem and was a garbage dump were the Hebrews would also burn the bodies of the dead criminals. So I get were Christians would have gotten Hell from this garbage dump. But even though this Hell is not what Christains beleive in Hell to be doesn't this only prove that Hell actuallly exists just on Earth?
No, but....ah now I understand what you're getting at. That was just an ambiguous statement that threw me off track. Sorry.
Ya that's alright.
Sorry for posting the wrong pages I got messed up.
Okay so nobody disagree's with the description of Heaven. Fine, I guess Heaven does look like how it was described and that it is real.
Huh? No? We don't try to say that a description of a place that is almost definitely fictional is wrong, since it already is fictional. Quoting the Bible doesn't even give your case of Heaven existing a strong basis since you're using the Bible as evidence for the Bible. Doesn't work that way.
But even though this Hell is not what Christains beleive in Hell to be doesn't this only prove that Hell actuallly exists just on Earth?
In a sense, it does. Just be careful not to equivocate on the term 'hell'. Here's an example:
1) John puts his money in a bank.
2) A bank is the shoreline of a river.
3) Therefore, John puts his money in the shoreline of a river.
The argument above equivocates on the word 'bank', that is, it uses the word in two different meanings. Here would be a similar argument using a equivocation of 'hell'.
1) Hell is a place where the ****ed go for eternity.
2) Hell is a garbage dump outside Jerusalem.
3) Therefore, the ****ed spend eternity in a dump outside Jerusalem.
So in a sense, there is a place that Christians used for their idea of hell. That is a real place. But then there is the place with fire and brimstone that Christians mean when they refer to hell, and that place does not exist.
So yes, it shows that hell is, in a sense, on Earth. But only trivially so.
Okay so nobody disagree's with the description of Heaven. Fine, I guess Heaven does look like how it was described and that it is real.
Considering that the idea of hell is now in doubt, does that put into doubt the idea of heaven? Perhaps it, too, is not real.
There are also plenty of well-known heaven paradoxes that also might cast doubt on the existence of heaven. Do you find either of these points threatening to the Christian idea of heaven?
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