Forums → WEPR → Heaven and Hell?
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I am catholic so I believe that there is heaven and hell. I do beleive that you have to do good in this world to be able to go to heaven but if you do evil and bad more than good in this world I do believe that you will go to hell.
Heaven it is hard to concept the thought of living for eternity in heaven and that everything would be perfect and everyone would be nice and kind.
Hell it is also very hard to think that you will be punished for many years until getting the chance to go to heaven. Also you could be in hell for eternity suffering if you do very bad things in this world.
What is you thought on heaven and hell?
Do you beleive in heaven and hell?
Do you think you will go to heaven or hell?
Is God really real?
Discuss, it can be short or long answers or views.
- 811 Replies
since you're using the Bible as evidence for the Bible.
Pretty sure using Bible as evidnce for Heaven. I don't understand why the Bible's saying is not real. Even if it is third party opinions. It still says specific details about Heaven.
In the video about the thought of Hell I am pretty sure the guy used the Bible to prove that the thought of Hell came from a garbage dump.
Considering that the idea of hell is now in doubt, does that put into doubt the idea of heaven? Perhaps it, too, is not real.
There are also plenty of well-known heaven paradoxes that also might cast doubt on the existence of heaven. Do you find either of these points threatening to the Christian idea of heaven?
Well yes it does threaten the idea of Heaven but just because Hell is in doubt doesn't mean that Heaven is unreal. What are heaven paradoxes? Lets say if Hell is not real then doesn't that mean the God would be a unconditional lover he would give let us all go to Heaven for eternal life. Doesn't this mean that he is the all-loving God.
Pretty sure using Bible as evidnce for Heaven. I don't understand why the Bible's saying is not real. Even if it is third party opinions. It still says specific details about Heaven.
What you're saying is.
A) The Bible states there is Heaven.
And your evidence consists of
B) Certain quotes from Scripture, which come from the Bible proof heaven is real, hence it is real.
So you're essentially using your assertions to prove themselves. Which isn't really proving anything.
And details make not a thing real. J.K Rowling described Hogwarts in incredible detail, but that does not make the castle as it was in the book real.
Correct me if I'm wrong Moe, but here are some of them. I'm slightly confused on 2, 3 and 4.
Your confusion is well warranted, as that site does a terrible job of explaining the paradoxes. In fact, they way they are presented there, they aren't paradoxes at all!
So, just to be clear: a paradox is a kind of situation that results in a logical contradiction. None of the paradoxes on that Website are clear contradictions. I'll take them in turn.
1) "If you have transcended to Heaven while your spouse transcends to Hell, then can you fully experience ultimate joy and happiness?"
This is the most common paradox, but it only make sense when you include that God's will is determinate and unerring. If there would even be just a smidge more happiness in heaven with a loved one, then it would seem to guarantee entry into heaven by that loved one. But there are ways around this, here's a better way of putting the paradox.
John loves Sue but Joe hates her. John and Joe die and go to heaven. Sue's presence would make heaven that much sweeter for John, but would make it miserable for Joe. Where does Sue go?
2)"Our physical bodies bring us astounding agony in life. What substitute does Heaven offer for one's physical form?"
I can't make sense of this one, either. It's just a question, not a paradox.
3) "As defined by religion, our lives our filled with seemingly unavoidable sins. Does Heaven deprive us of our human minds in order to avoid sinful thinking?"
Simply put: sinning makes us happy. The things we're really not supposed to do are often the things we derive a great amount of pleasure in. It seems like eliminating these desires would make you not really... 'you'. So if 'you' go to heaven, then you don't
4) "The declaration of Heaven as a place for those who are saved means that there truly is a set of objective moral values. The problem with this perspective is that every religion basically has its own set of objective morals. Which one is correct?"
This is the idea of mutually assured destruction. Lets look at it from a Christian standpoint. Catholics think that everyone who hasn't received communion is going to hell. Baptists believe that anyone who isn't baptised as an adult is going to hell. Pretty much every Christian thinks, in some sense or other, that everyone else is going to hell but them. (Not literally, of course, but enough to get the paradox going).
Since all these groups claim to have the divine word of God and its correct interpretation, it seems like God messed up, which isn't possible.
I'd just like to point out that these are only paradoxes under certain conditions. They're really not 'true' paradoxes. But I think they cast reasonable doubt on the idea of heaven.
Thanks for clarifying Moe, no wonder I was questioning my understanding of paradoxes when I chanced upon the site.
Lets say if Hell is not real then doesn't that mean the God would be a unconditional lover he would give let us all go to Heaven for eternal life. Doesn't this mean that he is the all-loving God.
Good point. And that would get around a lot of problems with the heaven/hell paradigm. But if hell isn't real, then why worship God. If I'm getting into heaven regardless of what I do, then why waste time at church or temple or whatever?
I thought the idea of Heaven and Hell are pretty much tied, and that one doesn't or cannot exist without the other in most major religions?
Okay so nobody disagree's with the description of Heaven. Fine, I guess Heaven does look like how it was described and that it is real.
Well, I will step in then. First Heaven is not real. Second, that description comes from Revelations, and revelations is a book that most Christians hate. If you believe in that book, that means you also would have to believe that Yawheh is going to cause the end of the world horribly, with all the unlikeliness of giant monsters that come with it. Do you believe in revelations?
Okay so MageGrayWolf posted in page 21 saying
I remember that, here is a video on it.
Skeptic Bible Study: History and Location of Hell
So I agree and with what the video is saying. That Hell is actaully a place outside of Jeruselem and was a garbage dump were the Hebrews would also burn the bodies of the dead criminals. So I get were Christians would have gotten Hell from this garbage dump. But even though this Hell is not what Christains beleive in Hell to be doesn't this only prove that Hell actuallly exists just on Earth?
What? Sure, but it is a garbage dump...That would be like saying Nirvana is real, just on earth, and it is a band. Its not entirely incorrect, there is a band called Nirvana, but it isn't the spiritual place of the Buddhists.
Lets say if Hell is not real then doesn't that mean the God would be a unconditional lover he would give let us all go to Heaven for eternal life. Doesn't this mean that he is the all-loving God.
If God was all loving then why create a world with such an over abundance of needless suffering? There are systems in play in the world that require it. parasites, viruses, natural disasters, etc. these couldn't possibly be attributed to our own doing.
314, Nirvana is not Buddhist Heaven.
Nirvana is the perfect peace of the state of mind that is free from craving, anger, and other afflicting states. It's basically a state of mind.
Pretty sure using Bible as evidnce for Heaven. I don't understand why the Bible's saying is not real. Even if it is third party opinions. It still says specific details about Heaven.
It would be like using the La Vitas to prove in reincarnation. Just writing about it doesn't make it true. Or Harry Potter and the Sorcerer's stone as prof of wizards. Sorry for the strange sentence structure.
Well yes it does threaten the idea of Heaven but just because Hell is in doubt doesn't mean that Heaven is unreal. What are heaven paradoxes? Lets say if Hell is not real then doesn't that mean the God would be a unconditional lover he would give let us all go to Heaven for eternal life. Doesn't this mean that he is the all-loving God.
I have probably had this answered by Ninjas now.
314, Nirvana is not Buddhist Heaven.
Nirvana is the perfect peace of the state of mind that is free from craving, anger, and other afflicting states. It's basically a state of mind.
I was thought that it was part of the cycle, Nirvana being the end to the cycle and becoming one with a god or the universe or something. The Buddhist is the one with the "Three Rules" right?
if the bible is the only proof than it is probably not real but i do believe in it because thats my religion but theirs not any proof
In Hindu philosophy, it is the union with the Supreme being through moksha (liberation from suffering involved in being subject to the cycle of repeated death and reincarnation or rebirth). Heaven? I don't know, I'm not a Hindu.
In strictly Buddhist, not Hindu terms (both got intertwined somewhere), it merely refers to a state of mind, not heaven.
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