Forums → WEPR → is abortion ok?
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Is abortion ok? I donât think so. The babies that these people are killing is wrong, some people say that itâs not a person that itâs a bag of cells or a fetus and not really human being I have to disagree
Please debate
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[quote]So to make it short, you say thet when the seaman touch the egg BOOM its not the mother desicion anymore? She HAVE to born it so this piece of meat can evolve into a baby?I have to agree this is the more...curious part about the anti-abortion side. The argument is that it's aborting something which will likely grow to be a fully developed human. Following that logic though, every time a woman ovulates a "otential human" is lost as well. [/quote]
No. The ovum cannot mature into a baby. When the semen fertilises the ovum, you now have a zygote, which now has the potential to become a fetus, baby etc. Also, ovulation is a natural cycle which cannot be stopped. Also, your point is invalid as abortion is something that is done by human choice whereas ovulation is not done by choice.
Like I said, from a practical point of view. A fetus does everything a tumor does except faster than most
Okay. While we're comparing from a practical point of view, I guess we could say apples and oranges are practically the same thing because they're both fruit and they're both digested the same way. Anyone can be redundant.
Nice strawman. No one is condemning unborn children to death for their simple existence. No one is advocating willy-nilly on the moment abortions because of a failure to think ahead.
That's the point of this thread, no? Judging by how you've debated on this topic for quite a while now, and following the arguments you've made, I'd say that's exactly what you're doing. You can't make a counter argument by sugarcoating the basic message OF your argument, which is the unborn child is condemned to death because of it's existence. It makes you look pretty foolish.
**** victims are a different story. That's the only exception where I see abortion as an option.
Because a newborn is able to survive on its own (relatively speaking).
That's why it needs to be fed and changed up to a certain age right? There is no difference between killing an unborn fetus and a newborn baby. They're both (potential) human beings. You're telling me that because the fetus has yet to form brain activity, that it makes abortion completely okay?
The difference is, one is developed, the other not. One is 100% dependant and inseparable from the host body and is unable to survive if taken out of that environment prematurely.
What's your point? New borns are 100% dependent upon other people. This quote proves nothing for your argument.
then man up and take responsibility for your actions.
Having an abortion when you can't take care of nor want the child is being responsible.
Did you guys know that your taxes go towards keeping abortion clinics running? Think about that for a minute. Your hard earned taxes is being pumped into a facility which condones taking a life or a "fetus" as some of you may call it.
There are over a million abortion preformed in the US each year. around 42 million preformed world wide. 1% of those are done due to r@pe/incest, 6% are from potential health problems to the mother and/or child.
Using the US statistic alone of about 1.21 million abortions in 2005 subtracting only 7% for r@pe, incest, and complications we are still left with over a million children being born in that year if abortions were not conducted. Now can you imagine the tax burden on the country for having to take in such an influx of unwanted children?
No. The ovum cannot mature into a baby. When the semen fertilises the ovum, you now have a zygote, which now has the potential to become a fetus, baby etc
Sure it can. It just needs to be combined with sperm like you said.If that act had been done that would have been a fetus.
Also, ovulation is a natural cycle which cannot be stopped. Also, your point is invalid as abortion is something that is done by human choice whereas ovulation is not done by choice.
So? Abortions are natural too. Albeit we perform them in an unnatural way.
I guess we could say apples and oranges are practically the same thing because they're both fruit and they're both digested the same way. Anyone can be redundant.
Yes, from a practical point of view. They each are food, similar in size, contain similar nutrients, are similar in how they developed and what part of the plant they are. They each contain seeds and so on.
You can't make a counter argument by sugarcoating the basic message OF your argument, which is the unborn child is condemned to death because of it's existence. It makes you look pretty foolish.
Except, that's not what I'm saying. It's not being 'condemned to death' because of its existence but for other reasons.
**** victims are a different story. That's the only exception where I see abortion as an option.
How is that different from someone who would likely lose their house from being unable to support a child? A mother who would die in childbirth? An underage girl who would be emotionally and financially unable to support that child?
And no, before you say it, shoving all those unwanted children into the already overburdened foster care system isn't a good answer.
That's why it needs to be fed and changed up to a certain age right? There is no difference between killing an unborn fetus and a newborn baby.
I've already gone over how there is. A fetus/baby up to ~7 weeks does not have even a semi-functioning brain. Moreover, the fetus/baby up to much later is physically incapable of surviving outside of the womb.
They're both (potential) human beings. You're telling me that because the fetus has yet to form brain activity, that it makes abortion completely okay?
What I'm telling you is that because the fetus is not yet fully developed, sentient, unable to survive outside the womb and is a part of the mother's body, it is her choice to give birth to it or not.
What's your point? New borns are 100% dependent upon other people. This quote proves nothing for your argument.
Not in the same way a fetus is. A newborn is also able to interact with the world.
You know what i love? peoples who just write what they think without even reading the converastion befor. Its just killing the argue peoples.
As i said so many times, a baby is not always a gift. I dont want a new baby in my family. we will have to spend less, as there is a new mouth to feed. We will have to pay fro so many things, so our life quality will reduced.
So its vey easy for you to say "abortion is murdur", but you dont think. Its like all of these peopels who say "I love wars! i will be a fighter!". They dont know what war is. they cry from a scasrth in the knee, not ot say a arrow {i hade too}.
Same here. im sure that if your gf/mother/wife will tell you that she is pregnant, you wont react like "yeay! so we will stop traveling in holidays and stop going to resturants, and bye bye expensive gifts on Xmas for the kids, we made new life! we are like god!". If you will start to look at the economic situation of yours and your plans and dreams, you wont be so happy. maybe you will compremise, but does it worth it? if its happen to a large family, they cant just buy a smaller house. Pregnancie can bring this family into debs. im sure god will help them with thet for a new kid. a young couple can find himself not able to go studie, get a good job, an go to a "low class" life. And for a single women? im not even starting it.
Its very good that you have moral, but keep it to somewher else.
From the dawn of time peoples have made abortions. Only now, when the world became so "Moral" and "eity" we started to move back in time.
I just saw some statistics, and apearewntly Israel is one of the must abortion accepting cultures. So for me abortion sound legit and normal. 10 out of 1000 prgenancies are get abortions. And im sure all the pregnancy on the orthodox jewish communities and the orthodox muslims decreace this stats, as in cases of abortions they dont go to hospitals and dont inform the authorities.
So? Abortions are natural too. Albeit we perform them in an unnatural way.
Really? Somehow a unnatural process is a natural process? Man, you know it and so do I. This is bull.
Sure it can. It just needs to be combined with sperm like you said.If that act had been done that would have been a fetus.
A ovum, when left alone cannot grow into a fetus. A zygote can. There is a disctinct difference.
From the dawn of time peoples have made abortions
Really?
Really? Somehow a unnatural process is a natural process? Man, you know it and so do I. This is bull.
It's not intentional for the most part, but it is natural.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abortion#Spontaneous
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abortion#In_other_animals
A ovum, when left alone cannot grow into a fetus. A zygote can. There is a disctinct difference.
Only because you're making that distinction. If it was fertilized it would possibly become a child eventually.
What is the difference between disposing of the raw materials to something, and disposing of something 1/280 of the way built?
Really?
While it is an exaggeration, abortions are far from new.
Learn to use Google.
It's not intentional for the most part, but it is natural.
Not only that, a misscarriage is natural and it is unintentional to have a miscarriage unless you are purposely doing hard labour etc. in the intent to have a miscarriage which may as well be considered an abortion.
What is the difference between disposing of the raw materials to something, and disposing of something 1/280 of the way built?
The building that is 1/280 has already begun to start taking shape of something whereas the raw materials are just raw materials.
TBH, you cannot compare "1/280th complete building" to a Zygote, as if you leave a zygote alone, it will grow, it is a living cell. If you leave a building alone, nothing will happen, in fact, it will most likely rot away, it does not live and does not grow.
You may as well compare a bird to a rock.
TBH, you cannot compare "1/280th complete building" to a Zygote, as if you leave a zygote alone, it will grow, it is a living cell. If you leave a building alone, nothing will happen, in fact, it will most likely rot away, it does not live and does not grow.
The zygote needs the mother to grow, it grows on her ressources. From a strict juridical type of argumentation, it's only ok if the mother consents (granted she is aware of the pregnancy); if you consider the embryo already as a human, and the mother does not want it, it is abusing the mother, taking her ressources against her will. Is it ok to force the mother to be abused?
This just may have sounded a bit crazy, and I don't know why I even came up with it.. but maybe it's worth a thought^^
The building that is 1/280 has already begun to start taking shape of something whereas the raw materials are just raw materials.
So what you're trying to say is, the second something starts it's suddenly that?
Continuing with the building analogy, piles of steel, wood, and cement magically become a skyscraper the second the foundation is laid?
TBH, you cannot compare "1/280th complete building" to a Zygote, as if you leave a zygote alone, it will grow, it is a living cell.
Yes, I can compare them. The general idea is the same and you being a stickler over the irrelevant details to the analogy don't change that.
a woman should have the right to decide what to do with her body. I think that up to a certain point at least. especially when the foetus poses a risk to the mother's health
The zygote needs the mother to grow, it grows on her ressources. From a strict juridical type of argumentation, it's only ok if the mother consents (granted she is aware of the pregnancy); if you consider the embryo already as a human, and the mother does not want it, it is abusing the mother, taking her ressources against her will. Is it ok to force the mother to be abused?
A zygote is not a human, it is a living cell that has the potential to be a human that was a direct result of her (and her actions sometimes). If you have spare food, and you deny somebody who is starving that food, it is a direct result that they die because of your acitons. You have spare resources, that you can give to this zygote, fetus, but if you deny it, you have killed that living thing. Abortion is not a matter of law, it is a matter of ethics, "do I believe that we should be able to kill a living thing that has the potential to become a human being"
Continuing with the building analogy, piles of steel, wood, and cement magically become a skyscraper the second the foundation is laid?
if you leave a zygote alone, it will grow, it is a living cell. If you leave a building alone, nothing will happen, in fact, it will most likely rot away, it does not live and does not grow.Therefore how can you compare a skyscraper to a living thing?
A zygote is not a human, it is a living cell that has the potential to be a human that was a direct result of her (and her actions sometimes). If you have spare food, and you deny somebody who is starving that food, it is a direct result that they die because of your acitons. You have spare resources, that you can give to this zygote, fetus, but if you deny it, you have killed that living thing. Abortion is not a matter of law, it is a matter of ethics, "do I believe that we should be able to kill a living thing that has the potential to become a human being"
Well, I mentioned what I said was a bit stupid^^ though what I retain from your answer is that you see potentiality as an argument against abortion , which is in reality a really horrible argument (not sure if you actually support that argument or not, though). To be consequent, you'd have to have sex all the time.
And yes, it's a ethic issue, but those ethics result in laws that either ban or regulate abortion. And a lawyer might attack any of the position on basis of pre-existing laws with definitions of life and individuality that fit their purpose best; so maybe it's not totally wrong to also debate that aspect.
, "do I believe that we should be able to kill a living thing that has the potential to become a human being"
You left out some parts.
"Do I believe that a would-be mother should have the choice to kill a living thing inside of her that has the potential to become a human being if she does not want to birth it?"
Therefore how can you compare a skyscraper to a living thing?
If you don't understand what an analogy is, then so be it. From what you've been protesting about it so far it seems to me the only analogy you'll except is something like, "imagine if a pencil was a mechanical pencil" and you'd still gripe over how normal pencils are sharpened.
A baby neeed to come out of love and willingness. it cant be made out of a mistake. That what i have to say to you and your "life potential".
I dont say "dont have babies"!
Abortion dosent meen "I dont want to have any baby! what fun is to destroy the human race"!
Abortion only say - "its not the time and the place for that". It can happen to adults, to teens, to couples and to strangers. As humans we like to have sex. You cant denie it or stop it. And from the dawn of time people as aborted when the pregnancy wasnt right, like when the mother coldnt survive with a baby or couldnt support him. Is that considered "live saving" for you?
what about a family, which a baby will ruin it life style to the ground? "No more traveling, no more resturant kids, we have a baby!", does this "life saving" too?
Because i think it does. even a family who can support a kid and can survie it, will have to low it quality of life. So lets 'save' this prgenancy fro later ok?
A teen dosent need to have a baby as a punishment. You dont have sex to bring a baby mostly. Am i right? Most peopels who have sex do it for fun.
And protecting device are killing a baby just like a abortion does.
Think on abortion as a "The next day pill" but after longer times. 2 pills, that what is all about. it just stop the pregnancy.
BTW, the pregnant girl who almost suicide in Israel, the one which her boyfriend was killed by policemans after trying to suicide and kill the girl, has aborted the baby. In fact, without peoples who convincing her that abortion is murdur it cold end much earlier, without the sad end.
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