is abortion ok? - Armor Games Community

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8,259 posts

Regent

Posted October 26, '12 10:07pm UTC

A recent study from the Washington University, St.Louis, once again evidenced that better accessibitily to contraception decreased the rate of unwanted pregnancies resulting in less abortions. Source.

Who can Americans thank for that? Right, Obamacare's contraception mandate.

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MageGrayWolf

9,470 posts

Farmer

Posted October 27, '12 3:15am UTC

This seems to sum up the argument that I and others like Kasic have been making.

Abortion is not murder.

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zonic98

547 posts

Nomad

Posted October 27, '12 1:57pm UTC

If she's been *****. Then absolutely no.
Otherwise, she's responsible for her actions, so yes.

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HahiHa

8,259 posts

Regent

Posted October 27, '12 3:01pm UTC

If she's been *****. Then absolutely no.
Otherwise, she's responsible for her actions, so yes.

Are you saying abortion is not ok in cases of ****, but is ok otherwise? Or are you referring to something else?

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Kasic

5,556 posts

Jester

Posted October 27, '12 5:02pm UTC

You know, I've come to the conclusion that every person who is anti-abortion except in cases of **** is a hypocrite.

Let's examine how this is so...

Claim 1: A fetus is human.
Claim 2: Abortion is murder of said human.
Claim 3: Abortion is validated in cases of ****.

What this is saying is that it is okay to murder a human being because of the how it was made. Now, from this standpoint there can only be two logical conclusions.

Conclusion A: You are not human if you were sired through ****.
Conclusion B: The sins of the father are the sins of the son (or daughter).

Since most people who are anti-abortion aren't going to say that those conclusions are correct, then they are a hypocrite because they are justifying the murder of a human being when their other arguments are that it is never okay to abort.

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MageGrayWolf

9,470 posts

Farmer

Posted October 27, '12 5:49pm UTC

Claim 1: A fetus is human.

let's just go with claim 1. Isn't saying that a woman has to allow the pregnancy to continue to term, saying that she has to allow another human being to feed off her nutrients without her consent?

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ghg429xl

2 posts

Nomad

Posted October 27, '12 7:46pm UTC

I don't believe it is right, in the bible it states "Do not muder", abortion is muder of a non-born to newly born child. It is very sad, where if you go 10mph over the speed limit that you would get a ticket, abortion, nothing...

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HahiHa

8,259 posts

Regent

Posted October 27, '12 8:28pm UTC

I don't believe it is right, in the bible it states "Do not muder", abortion is muder of a non-born to newly born child. It is very sad, where if you go 10mph over the speed limit that you would get a ticket, abortion, nothing...

Murder is when you kill another human. Even at the 12th week, the most frequent time limit for abortions, it is still not a human. So technically it is not murder.

I also have a question. If the bible would not say anything about murder - would not state "do not murder" - would you find it acceptable? Murder in general, I mean.

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MageGrayWolf

9,470 posts

Farmer

Posted October 28, '12 1:43am UTC

I don't believe it is right, in the bible it states "Do not muder", abortion is muder of a non-born to newly born child. It is very sad, where if you go 10mph over the speed limit that you would get a ticket, abortion, nothing...

Let's have a look at what else the Bible has to say on the subject of killing kids.

(NIV)
Psalm 137:9
Happy is the one who seizes your infants and dashes them against the rocks.

Seems if the parents don't listen to God, God will do some down right nasty stuff to your kids.

Leviticus 26:27-29
ââIf in spite of this you still do not listen to me but continue to be hostile toward me,
then in my anger I will be hostile toward you, and I myself will punish you for your sins seven times over.
You will eat the flesh of your sons and the flesh of your daughters.

Yeah you're reading that in context. God will personally make you eat your kids. Not the only time he uses this form of punishment either.
Part of the curse of Disobeying God.

Deuteronomy 28:49
The Lord will bring a nation against you from far away, from the ends of the earth, like an eagle swooping down, a nation whose language you will not understand,
Deuteronomy 28:53
Because of the suffering your enemy will inflict on you during the siege, you will eat the fruit of the womb, the flesh of the sons and daughters the Lord your God has given you.

Round three of God imposed cannibalism.

Jeremiah 19:9
I will make them eat the flesh of their sons and daughters, and they will eat one anotherâs flesh because their enemies will press the siege so hard against them to destroy them.â

Of course let's not forget the time God personally kills completely innocent children for something one guy did.

Exodus 11:5
Every firstborn son in Egypt will die, from the firstborn son of Pharaoh, who sits on the throne, to the firstborn son of the female slave, who is at her hand mill, and all the firstborn of the cattle as well.

Now you might try to worm your way through this with bs apologetic claiming special pleading for God or how these were punishments for disobeying God. If you want to go down that road I can pull far to many verses to even list of situations where God says we are to kill someone.

Besides.

https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/377700_458222024218600_912521846_n.jpg

[quote]I don't believe it is right, in the bible it states "Do not muder", abortion is muder of a non-born to newly born child. It is very sad, where if you go 10mph over the speed limit that you would get a ticket, abortion, nothing...[/quote]\r\n\r\nLet's have a look at what else the Bible has to say on the subject of killing kids.\r\n\r\n(NIV)\r\nPsalm 137:9\r\nHappy is the one who seizes your infants and dashes them against the rocks.\r\n\r\nSeems if the parents don't listen to God, God will do some down right nasty stuff to your kids.\r\n\r\nLeviticus 26:27-29\r\n â��â��If in spite of this you still do not listen to me but continue to be hostile toward me,\r\n then in my anger I will be hostile toward you, and I myself will punish you for your sins seven times over.\r\nYou will eat the flesh of your sons and the flesh of your daughters.\r\n\r\nYeah you're reading that in context. God will personally make you eat your kids. Not the only time he uses this form of punishment either.\r\nPart of the curse of Disobeying God.\r\n\r\nDeuteronomy 28:49\r\nThe Lord will bring a nation against you from far away, from the ends of the earth, like an eagle swooping down, a nation whose language you will not understand,\r\nDeuteronomy 28:53\r\nBecause of the suffering your enemy will inflict on you during the siege, you will eat the fruit of the womb, the flesh of the sons and daughters the Lord your God has given you.\r\n\r\nRound three of God imposed cannibalism.\r\n\r\nJeremiah 19:9\r\nI will make them eat the flesh of their sons and daughters, and they will eat one anotherâ��s flesh because their enemies will press the siege so hard against them to destroy them.â�� \r\n\r\nOf course let's not forget the time God personally kills completely innocent children for something one guy did.\r\n\r\nExodus 11:5\r\nEvery firstborn son in Egypt will die, from the firstborn son of Pharaoh, who sits on the throne, to the firstborn son of the female slave, who is at her hand mill, and all the firstborn of the cattle as well.\r\n\r\n\r\nNow you might try to worm your way through this with bs apologetic claiming special pleading for God or how these were punishments for disobeying God. If you want to go down that road I can pull far to many verses to even list of situations where God says we are to kill someone.\r\n\r\nBesides.\r\n[img]https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/377700_458222024218600_912521846_n.jpg[/img]

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MageGrayWolf

9,470 posts

Farmer

Posted October 28, '12 1:45am UTC

Forgot this, something else to consider.
http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/says_about/abortion.html

What the Bible says about Abortion

Abortion is not murder. A fetus is not considered a human life.

If men strive, and hurt a woman with child, so that her fruit depart from her, and yet no mischief follow: he shall be surely punished, according as the woman's husband will lay upon him; and he shall pay as the judges determine. And if any mischief follow, then thou shalt give life for life. -- Exodus 21:22-23

The Bible places no value on fetuses or infants less than one month old.

And if it be from a month old even unto five years old, then thy estimation shall be of the male five shekels of silver, and for the female thy estimation shall be three shekels of silver. -- Leviticus 27:6

Fetuses and infants less than one month old are not considered persons.

Number the children of Levi after the house of their fathers, by their families: every male from a month old and upward shalt thou number them. And Moses numbered them according to the word of the LORD. -- Numbers 3:15-16

God sometimes approves of killing fetuses.

And Moses said unto them, Have ye saved all the women alive? ... Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him. -- Numbers 31:15-17
(Some of the non-virgin women must have been pregnant. They would have been killed along with their unborn fetuses.)

Give them, O LORD: what wilt thou give? give them a miscarrying womb and dry breasts. -- Hosea 9:14

Yea, though they bring forth, yet will I slay even the beloved fruit of their womb. -- Hosea 9:16

Samaria shall become desolate; for she hath rebelled against her God: they shall fall by the sword: their infants shall be dashed in pieces, and their women with child shall be ripped up. -- Hosea 13:16

God sometimes kills newborn babies to punish their parents.

Because by this deed thou hast given great occasion to the enemies of the LORD to blaspheme, the child also that is born unto thee shall surely die. -- 2 Samuel 12:14

God sometimes causes abortions by cursing unfaithful wives.

The priest shall say unto the woman, The LORD make thee a curse and an oath among thy people, when the LORD doth make thy thigh to rot, and thy belly to swell. And this water that causeth the curse shall go into thy bowels, to make thy belly to swell, and thy thigh to rot: And the woman shall say, Amen, amen. ...
And when he hath made her to drink the water, then it shall come to pass, that, if she be defiled, and have done trespass against her husband, that the water that causeth the curse shall enter into her, and become bitter, and her belly shall swell, and her thigh shall rot: and the woman shall be a curse among her people. And if the woman be not defiled, but be clean; then she shall be free, and shall conceive seed. -- Numbers 5:21-21, 27-28

God's law sometimes requires the execution (by burning to death) of pregnant women.

Tamar thy daughter in law hath played the harlot; and also, behold, she is with child by *****dom. And Judah said, Bring her forth, and let her be burnt. -- Genesis 38:24

Forgot this, something else to consider.\r\n[url=http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/says_about/abortion.html]http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/says_about/abortion.html[/url]\r\n\r\n[quote]What the Bible says about Abortion\r\n\r\nAbortion is not murder. A fetus is not considered a human life.\r\n\r\n    If men strive, and hurt a woman with child, so that her fruit depart from her, and yet no mischief follow: he shall be surely punished, according as the woman's husband will lay upon him; and he shall pay as the judges determine. And if any mischief follow, then thou shalt give life for life. -- Exodus 21:22-23\r\n\r\nThe Bible places no value on fetuses or infants less than one month old.\r\n\r\n    And if it be from a month old even unto five years old, then thy estimation shall be of the male five shekels of silver, and for the female thy estimation shall be three shekels of silver. -- Leviticus 27:6\r\n\r\nFetuses and infants less than one month old are not considered persons.\r\n\r\n    Number the children of Levi after the house of their fathers, by their families: every male from a month old and upward shalt thou number them. And Moses numbered them according to the word of the LORD. -- Numbers 3:15-16\r\n\r\nGod sometimes approves of killing fetuses.\r\n\r\n    And Moses said unto them, Have ye saved all the women alive? ... Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him. -- Numbers 31:15-17\r\n    (Some of the non-virgin women must have been pregnant. They would have been killed along with their unborn fetuses.)\r\n\r\n    Give them, O LORD: what wilt thou give? give them a miscarrying womb and dry breasts. -- Hosea 9:14\r\n\r\n    Yea, though they bring forth, yet will I slay even the beloved fruit of their womb. -- Hosea 9:16\r\n\r\n    Samaria shall become desolate; for she hath rebelled against her God: they shall fall by the sword: their infants shall be dashed in pieces, and their women with child shall be ripped up. -- Hosea 13:16\r\n\r\nGod sometimes kills newborn babies to punish their parents.\r\n\r\n    Because by this deed thou hast given great occasion to the enemies of the LORD to blaspheme, the child also that is born unto thee shall surely die. -- 2 Samuel 12:14\r\n\r\nGod sometimes causes abortions by cursing unfaithful wives.\r\n\r\n    The priest shall say unto the woman, The LORD make thee a curse and an oath among thy people, when the LORD doth make thy thigh to rot, and thy belly to swell. And this water that causeth the curse shall go into thy bowels, to make thy belly to swell, and thy thigh to rot: And the woman shall say, Amen, amen. ...\r\n    And when he hath made her to drink the water, then it shall come to pass, that, if she be defiled, and have done trespass against her husband, that the water that causeth the curse shall enter into her, and become bitter, and her belly shall swell, and her thigh shall rot: and the woman shall be a curse among her people. And if the woman be not defiled, but be clean; then she shall be free, and shall conceive seed. -- Numbers 5:21-21, 27-28\r\n\r\nGod's law sometimes requires the execution (by burning to death) of pregnant women.\r\n\r\n    Tamar thy daughter in law hath played the harlot; and also, behold, she is with child by *****dom. And Judah said, Bring her forth, and let her be burnt. -- Genesis 38:24 [/quote]

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handlerfan

185 posts

Nomad

Posted October 28, '12 2:26am UTC

I think that the poster of the hands is gross. Is is for real? Quote "women who have abortions should be made into saints". I think that there are some women who don't think they are saints after an abortion.

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Kasic

5,556 posts

Jester

Posted October 28, '12 2:33am UTC

I think that the poster of the hands is gross. Is is for real?

I know right? Those hands are just so wrinkly, they can't be real.

Quote "women who have abortions should be made into saints". I think that there are some women who don't think they are saints after an abortion.

You forgot the rest of it, like how those unborn children, according to doctrine, go to eternal paradise without suffering.

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njaddison5699

9 posts

Nomad

Posted October 28, '12 3:08am UTC

No, abortion is not OK.
Imagine killing a small child. How would you feel? Guilty's the word that comes to mind. I would immediately turn myself in if I ever were to kill a child.

That's basically the same idea with abortion. It's just an doctor killing the baby instead of you (last time I checked, OBGYNs do abortions, don't they? Not sure....)

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Kasic

5,556 posts

Jester

Posted October 28, '12 3:31am UTC

Imagine killing a small child. How would you feel? Guilty's the word that comes to mind. I would immediately turn myself in if I ever were to kill a child.

Already went over how (less than 12 weeks) abortion is not murder from 3 different perspectives, biological, moral, and judicial.

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pangtongshu

9,808 posts

Jester

Posted October 28, '12 7:17am UTC

Already went over how (less than 12 weeks) abortion is not murder from 3 different perspectives, biological, moral, and judicial.

Do people even look at anything you all have said? If people took the time to read the argument that has been restated at least a dozen times by now..

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