this tread is about the statistics and guesing. even if you support by ideaoligy one of the side, its about what you think will happen, not what you hope or want to. so "Israel people are braver" "the iranian have the right to destroy israel" - Out, "the IDF as prove himself useful and has the tools for the job" "Iran have a strong anti-air defence system" - In.
so guys, do you think that an attack in Iran by Israel will stop the Developing of an atomic bomb by Iran, will only slow it or will do nothing at all? do you think that the damage in the home front Will be worth it or will cost too many lives and damage? and - does Israel need to wait for USA to interfere or Israel need to do it by herself, "befor its too late"?
firstly, my opinion is that Netanyau is trying to make a 'scene', make the problem be bigger than its actualy is. sure that an nuclear Iran is a treat to Israel, but attacing it will only give them an Excuse to attack us, saying that they are defending against us. even that the Israeli is a very strong army {one of the bests in the world}, the Iranian showd us that they are not to be disregard. they fought for 8 years against Iraq. so tehy wont break up easly, like some in Israel hope {like the eygeption army in 1967 - againt, i dont disregard them too. like i dont blame the french army in WW2}. and, unlike the US army, we wont get the support of the locals who oppose the regiem, as it will be easier to Hammedinijad to unit the Iranian against the 'zionists', while USA is more nautral to them. and, unlike USA, saudi-arabia as said that they wont let our airplanse to fly over her Territory and will shoot them if they will. afcors they will never do this to USA army.
so, i think that we {Israel} need to let USA make the move, maybe help as we can, and not do it ourself. not because of cowardness or that we are affraid, but because of the fact that the USA army is much much stronger and have a better chanses to sucssed, while the Israeli army has less chance to gain support inside Iran and to defeat Iran befor a devisteted rocket barrage on us.
does Israel need to wait for USA to interfere or Israel need to do it by herself
im sorry danielo but i think that israel is going to have to do it there selves i wish the US would but i dont think were going to Especially with this president
i dont think we should full out atack them but i think taking out there Scientist is a good idea, if we atack them alot of lives will be lost & it will ster up every other muslim nations.
I have yet to see a history textbook or a source saying America dropped the two bombs because of "Jehovah". Unless you're going to provide it as a source I don't think it was obvious to you that religion played no role.
And if anything, if what we're seeing here is based on the CW, then no nukes will be used. The Americans and Soviets were far more rational than what most people think them to be; with numerous checks in question.
I have yet to see a history textbook or a source saying America dropped the two bombs because of "Jehovah". Unless you're going to provide it as a source
I wrote that to the response of this
Why, in Allah's name, would they use a nuclear weapon to retaliate against a conventional assault?
and wasn't meant to taken seriously.
I don't think it was obvious to you that religion played no role.
Unless you got some sort of godlike power, and can read minds. Then I doubt you know what is obvious to me, and what is not.
Seeing the internet is an emotionless slate not meant for sarcasm, sorry. Then again, it was not unfair to make such accusations against you.
Apropos, would it not be fair for the Palestinians to feel equally threatened by Israels nukes given the rise of more hard line Orthodox Jewish political parties?
In any case, even the IDF chief admitted in April that Iran was not pursuing nuclear weapons.
The IDF does not necessarily have full possesion of the facts. The Mossad and Shin Bet answer only to the prime minister. Also, there is a thing called secret stuff- in other words, the IDF chief does not have to speak the truth on such matters.
Beside the scientist, or any other people who was responsible to develop it.
They didn't know the political consequences- only the physical.
And it has one of the larger armed forces in the region.
...and a large amount of infantry is hardly usable in this situation, see what I wrote on the previous page.
There's also something called making a very public statement, which internationally would be scrutinized and taken to be an official statement. The IDF chief would hardly be going around making such statements unless he knew why he was saying had grains of truth would he?
Also you're taking "large" too literally. Iran has of the better missile forces in the region and is increasingly being armed with Russian technology. The fact that it could sustain an all out attack by Iraq with city bombardments, chemical weapons and half the world supporting the Iraqis leaves little to doubt their tenacity and grit.
Beside the scientist, or any other people who was responsible to develop it.
All those people who used an underpowered version in the middle of a desert without any live targets and without paying attention to the lingering effects? Those tests?
People do allot of things in desperation, so it not out of question, that they may use it.
Unlikely. It would be shooting their head to spite the foot. Nuking Israel would not make it win the war, it would mean America would get angry and kill it. Nuking would not help for anything, why would they use it? To get revenge before they all die? Unless Israel is going door to door and killing every man, women, and child, it would probably be better if they just lost the war using conventional weapons.
The situation is basically like a cold war, between non superpowers.
And in the cold war no one used nukes. Because no one wants to get nuked.
The situation is basically like a cold war, between non superpowers.
Apropos, would it not be fair for the Palestinians to feel equally threatened by Israels nukes given the rise of more hard line Orthodox Jewish political parties?
No, because Israel isn't stupid enough to poison their own country with nuclear fallout...
Neither side fought directly either, only with proxies. This would be a direct conflict between the opposed nations.
No, because Israel isn't stupid enough to poison their own country with nuclear fallout...
Except Iran is in a similar situation. If Iran nukes Israel, the environmental effects would make the surrounding nations very angry.
People do allot of things in desperation, so it not out of question, that they may use it.
A potential way Iran would be permitted to use one out of desperation is if their State (governing body) is completely or almost completely crippled (and that would be very likely during a war, especially if the US has direct involvement), which is specifically not banned under international law.
... the threat or use of nuclear weapons would generally be contrary to the rules of international law applicable in armed conflict, and in particular the principles and rules of humanitarian law; However, in view of the current state of international law, and of the elements of fact at its disposal, the Court cannot conclude definitively whether the threat or use of nuclear weapons would be lawful or unlawful in an extreme circumstance of self-defence, in which the very survival of a State would be at stake. -International Court of Justice
Looking at some of the stances of these Orthodox Jews I'm not going to be surprised if they do something as drastic. Not to mention there are tactical missiles that don't have a large fallout.
@Palpatine
I don't even think there would be conventional warfare in the first place.
Neither side fought directly either, only with proxies. This would be a direct conflict between the opposed nations.[/quote]
thats why the cold war is not a actual war. it had the fear of war, but not the events.
the Court cannot conclude definitively whether the threat or use of nuclear weapons would be lawful or unlawful in an extreme circumstance of self-defence, in which the very survival of a State would be at stake.
i don't understand this of the court. could they or any1 here give a example of when it is oke the kill thousands of not millions of people (depending on the target) to defend a country that is already standing on 1 leg and almost tumbling over.
there should be no lawful use of nuclear weapons whatsoever.
Except Iran is in a similar situation. If Iran nukes Israel, the environmental effects would make the surrounding nations very angry.
Especially Syria. Don't forget that the missile would explode above Syria. After that, conventional warfare with Israel's border with Syria is a big no-no. Israel wins, everybody else loses.
Looking at some of the stances of these Orthodox Jews
They have the power to slightly affect policy, but they can't change it and anyway they are always excluded from top-tier military discussions(PM ,Defence M, chiefs of intelligence organisations, Chiefs of IDF, rocket program, nuclear program, and air-force, ect.)
There's also something called making a very public statement, which internationally would be scrutinized and taken to be an official statement. The IDF chief would hardly be going around making such statements unless he knew why he was saying had grains of truth would he?
Suppose he says that there is a program and that we'll bomb them. That would e bad stratigically for Israel. Information is gold, and if Iran knows that Israel knows, then it has a new advantage. The fact that he said it doesn't make it true.
The situation is basically like a cold war, between non superpowers.
I didn't say immediately; but the demographic time bomb is there which is why it's a worrying issue in the future.
The fact that the IDF chief actually makes a public statement which would be accorded by international standards I think, is quite a credible source. Iran probably already knows whether Israel knows or not, they've been hit with so many worms that they think Israel is behind it. And as you said, the Israeli intelligence branch is one of the best in the world.
I didn't say immediately; but the demographic time bomb is there which is why it's a worrying issue in the future.
Even the Haredi understand that if they nuke the West Bank-even with a small bomb-it's still gonna spread to Israel. And Jerusalem. Which is where most of them live. And our holy site.
Add the fact that they will never gain power for at least 50 years (demographics don't change politics THAT quickly), there's still enough time to make peace if the Palestinians are willing.
Sorry, but 60 years of conflict have shown only a festering of wounds and not the other way round. Demographic Time bombs aren't as non threatenin as they seem; we have already seen fringe Right parties play Kingmaker in the Knesset for so long and with so little representation. The proportional system of Israel's parliament will only increasingly work in their favour.
And no one knows for sure. Gush Emunim and other groups have proved themselves more than capable of killing Palestinians in the name of re sliming the Holy Land, as do many Orthodox Jews who share the same belief that Bibical Israel has to be reclaimed in whole. No one knows how far they will go in their goals, and the Palestinians have every inclination to fear.
