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xAyjAy
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xAyjAy
4,710 posts
Blacksmith

let us say there could be places like heaven and hell...

..what would happen with people who can not believe after they die? what happens with people who never had the chance to believe anything after they died? what happens with people who forgot that there is a god (altzheimers) or people who are mentally handicapped or people in a coma when they die?

my point is that believe can not be the only "thing" that decides wether they get into heaven or hell (if these places even exist).

just a thought i had today.

  • 154 Replies
EmperorPalpatine
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EmperorPalpatine
9,439 posts
Jester

You mean that you want proof that God exists?

Not necessarily (if you've got some, take it to the T&A thread), but at least evidence for your claims of His qualities (overall perfection, benevolence, justice, love, mercy, etc) and what He's done (creation [take that to T&A], free will, moral guidance, created heaven & hell, etc).

the only evidence is what good there is in people

Yet that ignores the bad there is in people which shouldn't be present.
OperationNilo
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OperationNilo
3,937 posts
Shepherd

Yet that ignores the bad there is in people which shouldn't be present.


I never said that. Think what you like and insult me how you may, my opinion is adamant.

Not necessarily (if you've got some, take it to the T&A thread), but at least evidence for your claims of His qualities (overall perfection, benevolence, justice, love, mercy, etc) and what He's done (creation [take that to T&A], free will, moral guidance, created heaven & hell, etc).


Just by giving you the free will to not believe in him, that is evidence enough.
OperationNilo
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OperationNilo
3,937 posts
Shepherd

I'm going to start work on the new Anthill RPG so what time I have for AG is going to be channeled into it. I'll not post in this thread for a while, but I'll be back.

Bladerunner679
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Bladerunner679
2,487 posts
Blacksmith

I never said that. Think what you like and insult me how you may, my opinion is adamant.


You fool, all you are doing is making yourself look indoctrinated. By playing the hurt individual card, you've successfully made yourself look unintelligent. Your opinion may be adamant, but your actual logic is quite flawed.

-Blade
EmperorPalpatine
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EmperorPalpatine
9,439 posts
Jester

Just by giving you the free will to not believe in him

It really depends what you mean by 'free will'. I recommend you read Romans 9 which says God made some people to honor Him, and some to dishonor Him, to which I respond with McCoy's statement.

my opinion is adamant.

Keeping any views set in stone rarely works out (ex: the Church and geocentricism).
MageGrayWolf
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MageGrayWolf
9,462 posts
Farmer

Last time I checked, faith needed no evidence.


That's the entire problem with faith, it's the belief without evidence. That is simply ignorance.

because the only evidence is what good there is in people that makes you say 'wow'. That is proof enough for me.


All that shows is that people are capable of doing altruistic things. It doesn't show the origin of why they do it and definitely doesn't indicate any supernatural intervention.


You mean that you want proof that God exists?


If the goal is to get me to believe this stuff than that is required.

my opinion is adamant.


So basically you're saying you're completely closed minded?
Kasic
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Kasic
5,552 posts
Jester

OperationNilo, I have three questions for you.

What do you believe love to be?

Why is faith a good thing?

How is God just to eternally punish people?

pangtongshu
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pangtongshu
9,808 posts
Jester

I believe this (although satirical) video fits perfectly with the theme of how things have been going in this thread

Kasic
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Kasic
5,552 posts
Jester

I believe this (although satirical) video fits perfectly with the theme of how things have been going in this thread


I laughed at the end. "Those who scored 1 or higher will pray for you."

Guess I'm good then, since prayer solves everything.
OperationNilo
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OperationNilo
3,937 posts
Shepherd

Debating in real life is so much easier than on the internet, hahaha, you have me as a witness. No hard feelings, right?

Bladerunner679
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Bladerunner679
2,487 posts
Blacksmith

Debating in real life is so much easier than on the internet, hahaha, you have me as a witness. No hard feelings, right?


we could care less about hard feelings, but my best advice for this matter is look before you leap. you jumped into this without any idea how skilled in this matter the people here are. you just spouted foolish claims without backing them at all, and you expect to get somewhere? some agnostic you once were.

-Blade
Kasic
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Kasic
5,552 posts
Jester

Debating in real life is so much easier than on the internet, hahaha, you have me as a witness. No hard feelings, right?


Debating in real life is easier for those who believe in faith, because none of your claims are backed up. On the internet, we can call out specific passages easily and also ask you to provide proof.

Face to face is only what each brings with them. As we don't carry around a bible, 5000 sources on evolution, various statistics about religion and much more, it's easier for you to just say, "well, I'll believe x because I want to and you can't prove me wrong."
OperationNilo
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OperationNilo
3,937 posts
Shepherd

some agnostic you once were


Thanks!
xAyjAy
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xAyjAy
4,710 posts
Blacksmith

let us asume god exists. now let us asume that he/she/it is nice and kind. someone who was a good person but did not belive in god gets send to hell because of the lack of believe in god? that does not sound loving, kind and nice to me...

when god is so allmighty, then why not carring weither people belive in him/her/it or not? reminds me of a card from magic the gathering:

unicorns do not care if you believe in them any more than you care if they believe in you. heres the picture

what happens with the animals, plants and other living beings when they die? are they all send to hell just because they can not belive / they never believed?

I believe in a Heave and a Hell. We could sit here and debate to the end of time what the other is, looks like, or is made for. The debate cannot be won, because no on really knows.


i think you read the question/title of this thread wrong...my question was not IF there are places like heaven and hell, nor what they look like, my question was what happens when you are a good, but not believing person. will you then get send to hell just because of your lack of believe?

"oh, look, this person never did anything wrong to other people, he/she was allways nice and kind and helped others. you even rescued many lives by risking your own many times. you get send to heav...wait a minute, you never believed in me, your creator and god? go to hell!"

"now this other guy, who murdered thousands of people, including innocent children, gets send to he...wait, you are a strong believer and you did it to save these sinners, not to mention that you did it in my name (even i never said you are allowed to kill in my name), but hey, you belived in me, feel free to go through the gates to heaven!"

...yes, it is your believe and not what you did before you died what decides weither you go to heaven or hell... *beware, sarcasm*

Thing is, he made humans to be perfect.


then why are humans fighting/killing eachother when we are so perfect? why are some poeple racists when everyone is perfect? why are we different when we should be perfect? why are we weak, get ill and die when we are sooo perfect?

i asked my mother (she believes in god) not believing means send to hell (not exactly these words but the same meaning) and she said: when i do not believe in god then i can not get to hell because i do not believe in hell either. but since i (she meant me) got my baptism i get send to heaven nonetheless. dafuq?

no need to mention that i did not say anything to not start a heated discusion.

I believe this (although satirical) video fits perfectly with the theme of how things have been going in this thread


that was hilarious! just pray, prayers will solve everything. that made my day xD
pangtongshu
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pangtongshu
9,808 posts
Jester

what happens with the animals, plants and other living beings when they die? are they all send to hell just because they can not belive / they never believed?


If I'm not mistaken..as popular belief goes..they do not have souls. So for animals...it is perfectly fine and acceptable that they will live their lives and then "move on" into a world of nothingness..but if one was to believe humans do the same..that is a no-no
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