ForumsWEPR[nec]Christianity vs Atheism

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kiddslayer12
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kiddslayer12
70 posts
Nomad

I am a christian, i and i strongly belive in my lord jesus christ, and i also belive that if you belive in him and except him as your savior, u will go to heaven. and i also believe that he created the world, not the big bang, or that we came from stupid apes.

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314d1
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314d1
3,817 posts
Nomad

I am a christian, and although some of it I disagree with, I don't think it is ignorance. The Jewish faith is very similar, our bible is theirs until the old testament ends, the religions split because the Jewish do not believe that Jesus was the messiah, Christians do.


I know that and hate the Jewish religion the same as the Christian religion... And the Islam, for that matter....

Its only when there blind faith gets in the way of there view of science(As that ignorant fellow showed, it probably isn't his fault.I am going to blame his blind faith and Christian sights...) politics(see Prop 8), and when it ends up killing people(see the crusades, the conflicts in the middle east, etc).
Aaliyah928
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Aaliyah928
252 posts
Nomad

You have a point there, but I follow science, although evolution is kinda sketchy in my sights, Science has done wonderful things for people, but nobody has proven without a doubt where we came from.

314d1
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314d1
3,817 posts
Nomad

Alright guys, this all getting pretty heated here...
But before I say anything else, I want to hear some facts that verify evolution. I've heard a lot of condemnation from both sides, but I want to here some facts.
P.S. If you're going to say anything about the geological column, please don't. The geological column is theory, seeing as it is hypothetical- nowhere has the full geological column been found, and the parts that are found are, often as not, in the wrong order.


Aww no one reads my rants any more....

Here, just read the wiki, then go to the wiki sources if you want a backup....

Now could you please provide evidence for ID?
314d1
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314d1
3,817 posts
Nomad

I found a better wiki, dedicated entirely to it's evidence.

MRWalker82
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MRWalker82
4,005 posts
Shepherd

But before I say anything else, I want to hear some facts that verify evolution. I've heard a lot of condemnation from both sides, but I want to here some facts.


Here's a link to University California, Berkeley's webpage entirely dedicated to evolution and the evidence for it. You can even browse by which group of facts you want to peruse.
Evidence for evolution by topic

The simple truth is that evolution is a fact. It happens and we know it. It's how we got to be the way we are now. A scientific theory is a group of facts and laws that address and explain a large topic. This is not to be confused with a 'theory' as in a guess. The terms are not the same, although theists sure love to think so.
MRWalker82
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MRWalker82
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Shepherd

although evolution is kinda sketchy in my sights, Science has done wonderful things for people, but nobody has proven without a doubt where we came from.


Evolution is only sketchy if you don't understand it, and yes we have proven where we came from, it's just the theists and uneducated who doubt it.
Aaliyah928
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Aaliyah928
252 posts
Nomad

And the hardcore Religious people. I'd like to propose a middle ground, What if god created the apes to become mankind eventually?
Is that too difficult to be believed by both parties?

HahiHa
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HahiHa
8,254 posts
Regent

If I may point to some specific examples I know of, to add to 314d1 and walker's links:
There is a way to make a difference of real fossils and fakes: Radiocarbon dating. And also, evolution, though it is too slow to observe directly, can be recorded in many situations. The developement of bacterial cultures for example show evolution.
Also, did you hear of that butterfly in England, I think? They live on birches, and are as light coloured as the bark to avoid being eaten. Yet in the industrial age, the bark of the trees were darker due to pollution, and the light butterfly got eaten more often. After a certain time, most of the surviving butterflies were the dark variants, and so the entire population got darker. After the pollution lowered years later, the bark of the new birches were, of course, again light since the new ones didn't get too polluted; and the darker butterflies were again at disadvantage, and today the butterflies are once again lighter. The work of evolution.

And did you know that they found, in a fossilized bone of a tyrannosaurus, genetic material that allowed them to affirm a relationship between the tyrannosaurus and the chicken? Dinosaur -> bird.

Avorne
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Avorne
3,087 posts
Nomad

I'd also recommend reading these to learn more about Evolution:

MRWalker82
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MRWalker82
4,005 posts
Shepherd

Anyone have some proof of Creationism? Oh yeah. I already knew the answer to that one... NO. Science FTW, sorry apologetics/fundamentalists/creationists.

Moe
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Moe
1,715 posts
Blacksmith

For some serious proof for evolution I suggest reading this: http://armorgames.com/community/thread/9829/evolutionism-or-creationism/page/129

HahiHa
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HahiHa
8,254 posts
Regent

I'd like to propose a middle ground, What if god created the apes to become mankind eventually?
Is that too difficult to be believed by both parties?

The only thing I could stick to is that it was a spiritual being that unleashed the expansion of the universe. Everything later than the Big Bang is IMO undependend of any god.
Aaliyah928
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Aaliyah928
252 posts
Nomad

But wouldn't that being stick around? I'm not going to unlock something's potential then run off, I'd like to watch it unfold!

314d1
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314d1
3,817 posts
Nomad

And the hardcore Religious people. I'd like to propose a middle ground, What if god created the apes to become mankind eventually?
Is that too difficult to be believed by both parties?


That is what theist are.... And something that you can believe. Science, however, reports the truth. It does not make compromises. It reports the sad, horrid truth(as well as the good truths, but still).We can't say "Oh, how about the Earth and the Sun orbit each other, you know, compromise? " and just make it so.
MRWalker82
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MRWalker82
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Shepherd

I'd like to propose a middle ground, What if god created the apes to become mankind eventually?
Is that too difficult to be believed by both parties?


Yeah, that is too difficult to believe. Firstly, we know where humans evolved from, and where apes evolved from. We all came from monkeys, and technically ARE monkeys. And since we know where monkeys came from, you would have to suggest that God created that species, but we know where THAT species comes from, and so on and so forth all the way back to when there was literally the first simple amino acids with the capability to grow and self replicate. So you could say that God had a hand in abiogenesis, but we know that isn't necessary, so you can't prove that one either. In fact, anything all the way back to the big bang we have a pretty good grasp on and nothing says 'made by God'. Sorry.
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