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NoNameC68
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NoNameC68
5,043 posts
Shepherd

Earlier this month, the American Humanist Association threatened to sue a school for holding a toy drive through a Christian organization. Because of this, the toy drive was shut down.

http://www.wbtw.com/story/24004411/sc-school-forced-to-withdraw-from-christmas-toy-drive

Not only are Christians using this as ammunition against atheists, but many atheists seem appalled as well. But has this story been accurately presented by the media?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9961eBmtN6E

The principle of the school states, "There's no religious literature tied with it (the program). There's no speakers that come. There's no religious affiliation at all." I don't know if the principle is ignorant, or if she's lying. But one thing is certain, she's' wrong.

http://www.samaritanspurse.org/article/occ-book/

According to the charity's website, they're goal is to make children happy while spreading the word of God. This is even more apparent in their video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WrBZAONeq3E

So what are your thoughts? Should the American Humanist Association have shut down the toy drive, or should they have allowed it?

  • 27 Replies
Kasic
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Kasic
5,556 posts
Jester

But if they actually say they are including the aforementioned booklets, then if the charity is accepted and used then I see no problem with it being carried out


I still see a problem with it, in that case. The charity is skimming donations off the top to fund their agenda. Even if it's paid for by people who want that agenda out there. Sorry Christians, but pamphlets telling people about your religion doesn't feed anyone, provide disaster relief, treat illnesses, or fund research into actual solutions. It just wastes money, time, and resources.
Jacen96
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Jacen96
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Bard

I still see a problem with it, in that case. The charity is skimming donations off the top to fund their agenda. Even if it's paid for by people who want that agenda out there. Sorry Christians, but pamphlets telling people about your religion doesn't feed anyone, provide disaster relief, treat illnesses, or fund research into actual solutions. It just wastes money, time, and resources.


Do you see a problem with athiests doing the same thing?

p.s. Jack Chick's tracts do not count as religious spreading thingys, they are entertainment.

~~~Darth Caedus
Kasic
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Kasic
5,556 posts
Jester

Do you see a problem with athiests doing the same thing?


I'm not sure how atheists would "do the same thing" and I've never heard any examples of such, but yes. If you're a charity, you should be focusing on your goals, not your beliefs. Helping people is the goal. Trying to persuade them to your viewpoint can be done after they no longer require assistance and aren't being guilted into accepting something.
xXxDAPRO89xXx
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xXxDAPRO89xXx
6,737 posts
Baron

Even if they are just using it as a front to proselytize?


Did you mention this in one of your earlier posts? tl;dr

But still a charity is a charity... I mean it's kinda bad to be trying to convert people but if it's a charity I think it's not that bad.

Do you see a problem with athiests doing the same thing?


Wait atheists trying to convert people to atheism?
Jacen96
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Jacen96
3,087 posts
Bard

I'm not sure how atheists would "do the same thing" and I've never heard any examples of such, but yes. If you're a charity, you should be focusing on your goals, not your beliefs. Helping people is the goal. Trying to persuade them to your viewpoint can be done after they no longer require assistance and aren't being guilted into accepting something.


Obviously the opposite of GOD IS REAL, HE'S AWESOME, GOD GAVE BEING TO SCIENCE, BECOME A CHRISTIAN NOW

is GOD IS FAKE, SCIENCE ONLY TRUTH, SCIENCE PROVES GOD IS FAKE, GOD SUCKS, BECOME AN ATHIEST NOW

Wait atheists trying to convert people to atheism?
The belief (or knowledge if prefered by members) that there isn't is just as much as the belief (or knowledge if prefered by members) that there is.

~~~Darth Caedus
Kasic
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Kasic
5,556 posts
Jester

Obviously the opposite is GOD IS FAKE, SCIENCE ONLY TRUTH, SCIENCE PROVES GOD IS FAKE, GOD SUCKS, BECOME AN ATHIEST NOW


Well yes, but in relation to charities I don't see how it's really applicable. Religions use charities as a front for "selling" their religion, by equating it with good deeds and "spreading the word and love of god." I don't see how "God is fake" can go with that. Religion is trying to draw people into a group by winning them over with goodies and good deeds - you'd have to have a similar group of atheists with the explicit goal of deconverting people in order to have the same. Which I've never heard of.
Freakenstein
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Freakenstein
9,507 posts
Jester

The belief (or knowledge if prefered by members) that there isn't is just as much as the belief (or knowledge if prefered by members) that there is.


The problem with this idea is the definition of Atheism. It isn't "the belief that there isn't spirituality" but a lack of spirituality, which is where the A in Atheism comes from. It's "without" or "lacking". It sounds like splitting hairs, but it's a clear-cut distinction that separates wisdom from faith.
MageGrayWolf
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MageGrayWolf
9,470 posts
Farmer

But still a charity is a charity... I mean it's kinda bad to be trying to convert people but if it's a charity I think it's not that bad.


Even when most of the donations get "skimmed" for the church rather than the charity?

For instance The Church of Latter-day Saints (Mormons) spent 0.7% of it's revenue on charitable causes. In comparison to the Red Cross which spent 92.1%.

The Myth Of Religious Charity

A charity is a charity doesn't work when the charity pads it's claim of charity with spreading a particular message, hiding the actual level of help it provides, or worse actually doing harm in the guise a charity.

is GOD IS FAKE, SCIENCE ONLY TRUTH, SCIENCE PROVES GOD IS FAKE, GOD SUCKS, BECOME AN ATHIEST NOW


Can you provide any examples of this occurring?

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y163/MageGrayWolf/atheistjokes/bizarro_atheists.jpg
Sonatavarius
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Sonatavarius
1,322 posts
Farmer

http://img.naij.com/n/02/5/atheist_bb_-_03.jpg

Errrrmmmaaageeeerrrrddddd!!! Mass child indoctrination on the roads during Christmas!!! These moneys could've been spent elsewhere!!! I don't really care who is pushing what view point as long as they're not stabbing at each other. They could've just said "Happy Holidays, WE LOVE YOU -American Atheist Association-" and been done with it. I highly doubt they're going to alter the opinions of all that many children, especially considering how they usually sway the direction of their parents and most parents are too stuck in their ways to do anything but roll their eyes at proselytizing people of other persuasions. â¦do you guys (that aren't still kids) remember being kids? If I got a pamphlet in a box full of toys, then that pamphlet got thrown away almost immediately. In the end⦠kids are getting toys (and most likely completely ignoring the proselytization) when they otherwise wouldn't.

I think we should allow all of the groups. We should just shed light on how they're actually spending their moneys and/or how corrupt they are. This will let everyone play in the reindeer games while peer pressuring them into being better people. (or just sending our funding elsewhere)

Kasic
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Kasic
5,556 posts
Jester

Errrrmmmaaageeeerrrrddddd!!! Mass child indoctrination on the roads during Christmas!!! These moneys could've been spent elsewhere!!!


Are they a charity, though? I don't think they are. They aren't accepting donations under the guise of "helping" people by giving. As far as I know anyways...could be wrong.
Sonatavarius
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Sonatavarius
1,322 posts
Farmer

Atheists are charities of the mind! @_____@ charity or not the money could've been better spent somewhere else!!!

lols I'm just having fun :P⦠but was the school directly funding the charity or was it that the people attending and working there were just accommodating their charity facilitator of choice? If that's who they want to charity through then that's who they want to charity through. "But they're preaching Jesus!!!"⦠well lets be honest, they're going to do that regardless. Kids are still getting toys. Charities should be opposed on the grounds of being disingenuous with the resources provided and not be opposed on the grounds of their faith or the lack thereof. It's a charity not an obligation. If these people want to give to it then that's their decisionâ¦. unless the kids were having their grades held hostage for not doing it, then I'd be pissed. If you don't' like the particular charity then don't give to it. Speak out against it and why it is bad. DON'T SUE JUST BECAUSE YOU DON'T LIKE JESUS

MageGrayWolf
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MageGrayWolf
9,470 posts
Farmer

It might have been a good idea to first inform the school that the organization they were working with was just using the charity as a front to preach. Then work from there.

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