I know alot of people avoid thees posts about GOD and Heaven but I just want to know peoples oppions about heaven.Do you belive there is a heaven and if you do what do you think its like?
I believe God gave us many of the same emotions that He has. For instance lets say that you are on one side of a deep pit and another person is on the other side. There is a bridge over the pit but you know that it is not safe so you tell the other person not to go out on it but they tell you they don't believe you. They then go out on the bridge and start jumping up and down, and sure enough the bridge gives way and they are killed. What will your reaction be? Will you admire them because they checked everything out for themselves? Or will you think they were stupid, because they would not listen to you? They could not see that the bridge was weak, so why should they believe you?
Horrible conparison. But, it whould all depend, now whouldn't it? If it was a rope bridge with steaks keeping it and it seemed to be falling, you whould be believed. But if it was a pure steel bridge with tons of renforcement, you whould be dissbelieved. God stories are like saying that the ironclad bridge will be distroyed by Elves and Scooby Doo riding on Pegases throwing stones the size of dimes...
That's fine but I haven't seen you offer any proof.
lol im not here trying to prove you guys wrong, or that you guys are right.. But it always ends up the same way, in every catholic related topic. Some athiest decides he needs proof, as if it means everything in the world for him to understand.. Its just becoming borderland cliche now to here an athiest asking for proof. And yes i have tried many times before, but every single athiest, in there own ways tries to describe the faults, while putting a diss out on christianity. Not to be massive d'ck or anything, but it makes athiests sound like massive d'cks... For example:
Horrible conparison. But, it whould all depend, now whouldn't it? If it was a rope bridge with steaks keeping it and it seemed to be falling, you whould be believed. But if it was a pure steel bridge with tons of renforcement, you whould be dissbelieved. God stories are like saying that the ironclad bridge will be distroyed by Elves and Scooby Doo riding on Pegases throwing stones the size of dimes...
yeaaaaa. i mean why bother even try to provide proof, when someone is sooo narrowminded, that you could give massive loads of evidence from any possible thing in the world, dump it right on top of them, and they wouldnt even realized what just happened.
See the thing is not once have i questioned what you think is right.. science i mean.. not once have i questioned you only believing in science. But it seems all you do is question question question, as if for some reason you need to know everything about our religion so u can try to prove it wrong. Your not going to change anyones beliefs, especially not people who are already catholic. And its funny, because everything we talk about is spiritual, and this spiritual stuff, you just have no understanding of. So half the time, these arguements i see you give can be hillarious... Mostly because its obvious you dont understand anything he's talking about....
lol im not here trying to prove you guys wrong, or that you guys are right.. But it always ends up the same way, in every catholic related topic. Some athiest decides he needs proof, as if it means everything in the world for him to understand.. Its just becoming borderland cliche now to here an athiest asking for proof. And yes i have tried many times before, but every single athiest, in there own ways tries to describe the faults, while putting a diss out on christianity. Not to be massive d'ck or anything, but it makes athiests sound like massive d'cks... For example:
Yes, we are horrible people for asking for proof. I mean, no big advancement was made without asking for proof. Scientest ask for proof to get further. Every day people ask for proof every day. "A cupon for a free can of soup with purchase" is somthing that you could believe in without proof, as it is fairly common, but a cupon that says "Free ever lasting life, just trow everything away and think, act, and believe what we tell you to!" needs proof.
yeaaaaa. i mean why bother even try to provide proof, when someone is sooo narrowminded, that you could give massive loads of evidence from any possible thing in the world, dump it right on top of them, and they wouldnt even realized what just happened.
Then show some actual proof. And showing somthing that is not proof as proof is not proof, sutch as if I brought you a mole and expected you to believe that they rule the world along with the cast of twilight is not proof...
There is no spirit either, so using "spiritual" arguments whould be even worse.
Horrible conparison. But, it whould all depend, now whouldn't it? If it was a rope bridge with steaks keeping it and it seemed to be falling, you whould be believed. But if it was a pure steel bridge with tons of renforcement, you whould be dissbelieved. God stories are like saying that the ironclad bridge will be distroyed by Elves and Scooby Doo riding on Pegases throwing stones the size of dimes...
That's how it works. Person A makes a claim. Person A then provides evidence to back up that claim. Person B then compares it to facts and tries to find holes in the claim. If it all stand up to scrutiny then the claim is excepted as true.
And the more incredible the claim the better the evidence has to be.
Are you really that dense not to understand this or is this just some form of trolling behavior as some are suspecting?!
Why are you guys even talking about athiesm? Aren't we supposed to be talking about heaven...? I'm pretty sure there is already a thread for atheism V religion. Talking about the existence of heaven is one thing, but in the last 20 posts, no one has even said the word "heaven."
For one thing, I think you can be atheist and still believe in heaven.
Heaven is basically just a "lace" you go after transcending human life. This doesn't necesarily have to involve souls or even death.
It basically all comes down to how you define "human life." Some people think human life just means having a human body. In a Sci-Fi sense, I could transcend human life by entering the digital world. But that is not what heaven means to me.
To me, Human life is seperated from heavenly life by the fact that we humans experiance suffering, hate, and entropy. Now, we don't HAVE to experiance any of those things. There is no telling what humans will be capable of in the far future.
We can't enter heaven. We have to build it around us.
For one thing, I think you can be atheist and still believe in heaven.
Yes that's correct, you can believe in an afterlife and still be an atheist. But since we got into talking about the Christian concept of heaven that requires a God.
However asking for evidence for such an existence is still valid.
I mean, no one is going to give you evidence for a christian heaven, because there isn't any evidence. So why are you asking?
If there is no evidence then we have to assume it's not real. Believing in something with no evidence is irrational. Claiming that this belief is equal to or trumps what does have evidence is ignorance/stupidity, and I have trouble letting that go unchallenged.
Well, I was more talking about making one's current life heaven. So one wouldn't actually need to die.
That's an interesting idea, how do you think we could go about it?
I'm sorry if I derailed the topic. I just thought this nonstop "evidence searching" might be getting kind of boring.
No need to be sorry. I think this thread needed a bit of shaking up with a new idea.
That's an interesting idea, how do you think we could go about it?
If I had a practical answer to that, I would be very wealthy.
In my opinion, Heaven is basically immortality and perfection (neither of which require dying). So all you need to do is find a way to be immortal and perfect.
...which is impossible given our current level of scientific understanding. But not impossible forever. Even today, we have some vague ideas on why we die, such as telomeres. We also have created biologicaly immortal cancer cell cultures.
Perfection is a little bit more... well... impossible to achieve. But I don't think it is any less impossible if you are dead.
Aknerd, if immortality were possible then I have an incorrect understanding of energy usage. True immortality whould mean you whould not require food, and humanity will always require some energy to move. If every human was immortal, as in they won't die of age, murder, ect, we whould creat a huge population problem. We only have a limited space, limited energy, and limited chemicals. If we were to achieve "immortality" we whould creat a tone of problems in a few centries... And if we achieved immortality to murder, it whould be even worse at that point, as we could not even effectivly fight over space and energy, we could only keep an enemy untill they ran out of energy, then they whould stay as a "Stone human" if the immortality prevented them from bieng recycled, thus our problem whould continue untill all the energy is in the hands of a few and the rest are all "stone", and the process whould continue untill every inch of the universe is covored...
In my opinion, Heaven is basically immortality and perfection (neither of which require dying). So all you need to do is find a way to be immortal and perfect.
I don't see how we could completely overcome the requirements of replenishment as 314d1 pointed out. However we could replace our bodies. Our bodies already do this I think it's something like about every seven years all the cells in our body are replaced with new ones. So physically speaking your not the same person you were seven years ago. If we could do this and continue to do this to our bodies artistically we could keep this process going virtually indefinitely. This is probably the closest we could get to physical immortality. However if our consciousness comes from some intangible soul rather then the physical functions of our brain we really have no hope of achieving this form of "immortality".
As for perfection this is a subjective concept. What I consider to be prefect might not be what you consider to be prefect.
don't see how we could completely overcome the requirements of replenishment as 314d1 pointed out.
Biologicaly immortal just means you don't age. You can still die if you don't eat, or if you are severely harmed.
You're right, true immortality would require a halting of entropy. I don't really see any scientist ever trying find a way to continuosly stop/reverse entropy, seeing as it is thought to be impossible in a closed system. However, I DO think that it will be eventually possible to slow down the rate of (macroscopic) entropy enough that energy will no longer be a precious commodity.
As for perfection this is a subjective concept. What I consider to be prefect might not be what you consider to be prefect.
I know... hence the impossibility of it. It's such an abstract concept, I don't think it is something that could ever be achieved. Basically, perfection would require everyone to agree on the exact same ideal reality. Which will never happen.
Next time you post somthing please let it make sense ....
Sure, because they have arguments and not only a book or pure faith.
Athiests only argument is that theres no such thing as God . So then they move to the side of science . But see , humens are limited in knowledge . Yet they think they know everything , it just amazes me -_- .
The actual truth is that whenever an atheist is dying he will be extremely scared since his last thoughts will be "whats next?" Its easier to live knowing that something is indeed out there beyond our knowledge.
Far from the truth. If I died, my last thought whould be " Damb, why didn't I get the philosiphers stone I have been dreaming of?"
And, back to the real logic, your saying we should just say "we don't know" then pretend like we do... wow, nice logic. When Cristians die they only think they know whats next, while an aitiest whould likly think the scientific thing that nothing is next. There is nothing beyond our knolage if we reach for it for long enough.
Athiests only argument is that theres no such thing as God . So then they move to the side of science . But see , humens are limited in knowledge . Yet they think they know everything , it just amazes me -_- .
Perhaps that's what some might think but fear of the known is no reason to delude yourself. Even if we go on after we die theists don't really know what happens afterwords either. It's possible the whole concept of an after life came from trying to quell our natural fear of the unknown like a nursery rhyme to help children sleep.
